First Real Fallout 3 News!

[TelemachusSneezed]

Emil, what are the chances of bringing "outside consultants" into the Fallout 3 development process to help write the main story, and to keep it consistent both with itself and with the history of the Fallout universe?

Hmmm... I could have answered my own question:
http://www.bethsoft.com/links/job_05260 ... dsgnr.html

I'm a little bothered by this though: "Knowledge of The Elder Scrolls Construction Set a plus."

Care to translate, Emil? Is this simply a "knowledge of company = good" requirement, or does this mean "Fallout will be TES with guns"?

[Bethsoft_Emil]

What I would really like to see is for BethSoft to branch-out from its current M.O. -- "OMFG grafiX!", like most game companies nowadays -- and to really focus on the more subtle things with Fallout 3.

Ultimately, what about the best of both worlds? Aren't the two capable of co-existing?

We've already heard the demand for such things on this forum: non-linear gameplay, immersion, choices, character development, etc. Ignoring the specifics, I think the majority of people on this forum are just saying one thing: "tell us a story, and make it convincing.

You've just described everything I look for in a game, certainly.

When we shall see first concept art of F3?

Hmmm... hard to say. That ball is in our marketing department's court. When you do, God knows you'll have plenty to talk about.

That said: Emil, what are the chances of bringing "outside consultants" into the Fallout 3 development process to help write the main story, and to keep it consistent both with itself and with the history of the Fallout universe? As has already been noted numerous times, Fallout-type games are not exactly B.S.'s forte. Perhaps a little bit of employment expansion should be called for.

Honestly, I think you'd be surprised by the types of things that interest our designers (games, literature, what have you), and what they're capable of. There are muscles they haven't even begun to flex yet. So, short answer -- no outside consultants. We all feel very comfortable with Fallout 3 and our combined knowledge of the world.

With even the faintest flavour of Elder Scrolls, Fallout 3 really will not be Fallout.

What, to you, constitutes Elder Scrolls "flavor"? Are you referring to "swords and sorcery," "first-person," "topic lists," or something else entirely (or all of the above)? I'm really curious to know where YOU guys draw the distinction.

[Killzig]

Lucky Louie/E-mil/Emilio/Haris/BethSoft dude: we've moved your question over yonder.

http://www.duckandcover.cx/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16111

thanks to Teatime and his micromanagement.

[Redeye]

Oh, blah.

Just put in an adjustable camera and some kind of clipping-adjuster so the 3P view can toggle to Isometric approximation.

I don't care anymore.

I'd be happy just to have dialogue in something that looked like CS:S.



I can imagine, like future-Philly in 3D. Sewers, subways, monorails, pedestrian bridges, skywalks, rooftop skyscraper farms...

Throw in cellular-automata-like A-life with day/night/etc. cycles.

A rusted, bloody-minded sandbox.

Just make sure it is smart.


No "xboxification".

[Killzig]

oh and speaking of books, I just bought

The Road by Cormac McCarthy promises lots of Post apoc fun

http://www.randomhouse.com/kvpa/cormacmccarthy/

[PiP]

van buren had a nifty camera type.
having this switchable to overthesh. or fpp could work, too.
aargh dejavu

[T-900]

In a phrase?

Quantity over Quality.

The Elder Scrolls game sacrifice atmosphere, quality dialogue, good writing, depth of plot, believable reactions, voice acting and freedom of choice in favour of bombarding you with sheer quantity.

I find it difficult to enjoy Oblivion, often, because it's simply so... Simplistic and immature in terms of plot. Fallout had a style and a storyline, a depth to it's characters, and a feeling of quality that I've never encountered in Morrowind or Oblivion.

Compared to many, Fallout was a very, very small game. But very satisfying. How many towns? How many NPCs in each town?

How many quests, in all?

But the satisfaction, the different choices, the thickness of the atmosphere and the sustained mood... It was wonderful.

In comparison, Morrowind and Oblivion continually break immersion, Oblivion moreso, via unbelievable characters, lazy dialogue, and simply ridiculous situations.

Seeking to avenge a man's death for a quest, his grieving wife responds to my query about recent rumours and is suddenly a happy, smiling, laughing character, before her face morphs once more into sadness. Is bipolar disorder common in Cyrodiil?

The entire world is simply unbelievable. Surely, no effort was made with Oblivion to make it feel emotionally real on any level.

That's a good idea of the flavour of the elder scrolls.

[Mosey]

2Bethsoft_Emil

1. It would be desirable to hope, that in game, besides title and final videoclips, will be included also subject as, it has been realized in Fallout. An example: departure from San Francisco of tanker " Valdes "...

2. The opportunity of passage of game by the character both kind and malicious should be completely realized. It allows to get used to a role more full. Alas! It is necessary to note, that the player could not realize completely itself playing a role of the villain in Fallout 1, 2, has not been completely realized. Hope for developers Fallout 3.

3. The opportunity of passage of game should be completely realized by the character of any role: the soldier, the thief, the diplomat, the sniper, men or women etc.

4. Consequences of actions of the player should make real visual changes to world around and attitudes of characters to the protagonist of game.

5. The arsenal of the weapon should be greater (in fact after global war "all against all " the weapon in the countries should remain much) and to include the existed, existing weapon, prototypes and, certainly, the laser and pulse weapon! In Fallout 2 was over 80 kinds of the weapon and I hope, that developers Fallout 3 too will not bring!

6. Breaking of locks, IMHO, it would be possible to realize in the form of mini-games, it would be more dynamical!

7. The plot of game should put constantly the player before a choice between Good or Evil (recollect KOTOR...).

8. In game there should be vehicles!

9. Realize in game global battle: defense of city or settlement! Probably, that large gangs in Fallout-universe try to take storm small settlements (recollect raiders attacks on Vault-City...).

10. In game the opportunity of improvement of the weapon should be realized: installation of more volumetric gun-cartridges, sights of night vision, optical and laser sights. If there is in game an optical sight there should be an opportunity realness of an aiming at shooting in the enemy. An example: Commandos from Eidos.

11. In game there should be such locations in which, the player at detection of these locations the beginning of game could not get without development of the certain skills and presence in the character of special means (recollect Toxic Caves from Fallout 2).

12. As it was already marked at a forum earlier, the opportunity of reception of the super-Armor (an example APA) and the powerful weapon by the weak character in the beginning of game should be completely excluded. The reservation should be a prize, which player receives before final fight.

13. As the weapon of the Russian manufacture is considered one of the most reliable and demanded in the World (an example: On arms of China various updatings the automatic gun of Kalashnikov) it would be desirable to hope cost, that it will be present in Fallout 3.

14. In game the opportunity of murder of an animal (an example should be realized: the lizard), removals from it of a skin and preparation of meat on a fire (the skin can be sold, meat can be eaten and increased it HP). Well, you see, it is strange: you have killed the lizard, a skin have removed, and meat have thrown … Strange, considering that in many taverns Fallout 2 submit for a dinner of rats, and the character throws in desert meat …

15. The aircraft, vertibird in Universe Fallout 3 … Why would be not present?... Recollect movie "Mad Max 2", unless you would not like to sit down for a steering wheel of the helicopter?

16. The death of any without exception of the character in game should not lead to impossibility of performance of the main quest!

Yours faithfully and the best regards!

[DarkUnderlord]

I know I'm getting my hopes up now. But just imagine walking across the brooklyn bridge (which would be barely standing) and seeing an annihialated NYC on the horizon. And hearing machine gun fire in the distance. And going into the city. It would be hell.

You mean as everything pops into viewing distance? At least they won't have that much grass to deal with this time though.

That gave us Fallout 2, and then Fallout Tactics. You want more?

You left out Brotherhood of Steel: Console Edition.

Compared to many, Fallout was a very, very small game. But very satisfying. How many towns? How many NPCs in each town?

How many quests, in all?

Fallout 2 has 114 quests, Fallout 1 has 33. Fallout 1 has 13 locations, Fallout 2 has 20 locations (includes Galgotha, Sierra Army Depot etc...).

Oblivion has 197+ quests and 363+ Locations (9 Towns, 48 Elven Ruins, 48 Fort Ruins, 8 Landmarks, 24 Mines, 15 Shrines, 16 Inns, 32 Camps, 28 Settlements, 85 Caves and about 50+ places where Oblivion Gates can open).

[DaC-Sniper]

Hey wow. I posted in a thread on an internets forum!

[Smiley]

and still we know which game is better.

Yes that was the exact point of T-900 =/

[Carnalfex]

*ponders*

I wonder if there will be hordes of talking, furry deathclaws? Or millions and millions of the supposedly nearly extinct super mutants? Oh and vehicles! good idea, the player should definitely be able to make travel trivial and less impressive baddies encountered therein by simply running them over. Hell, why bother having travel at all, it only adds flavor and requires the player to make choices, perhaps even talk to NPC for directions before randomly setting off in a direction. That could all be easily replaced with a magic compass that constantly reveals anything related to your current problem (regardless of how far away or well hidden). Hey, a map that lets you magically teleport across the world to any location with complete safety sounds good too while we're at it.

[Koki]

You mean as everything pops into viewing distance? At least they won't have that much grass to deal with this time though.

And I guess putting soil erosion in a game where all terrain is desert would be quite pointless.
You just can't have everything

Oblivion has 197+ quests and 363+ Locations (9 Towns, 48 Elven Ruins, 48 Fort Ruins, 8 Landmarks, 24 Mines, 15 Shrines, 16 Inns, 32 Camps, 28 Settlements, 85 Caves and about 50+ places where Oblivion Gates can open).

So, it had 9 locations and 188 dungeons?

[boylegd]

Having come across this thread, I couldn't resist chiming in. Since Emil has urged us to voice constructive commentary I'll do that the best I can; since I am not normally an active member of this community, pardon me for saying things that have already been said a billion times.

My background: fan of both fallout games, fan of baldur's gate and planescape and icewind dale and all that good stuff. No experience with bethseda's work. Long time RPG player with some writing credits on the new PARANOIA line. Favourite computer rpgs to date are fallout 2 and baldur's gate 2, for different reasons.

Fallout rocked. Immersive, dangerous, story driven, moral ambiguity, multiple solutions, depth of role play experience. I'm one of those players who didn't reload after screwing up, losing an NPC, or saying the wrong thing, or starting a huge brawl... I just let it happen and rolled with it. I must have played it through that way 5 times, and I was always entertained by the result.

The other highpoint was the strategic depth of the sometimes nearly-impossible combat encounters which were invariably optional. What fun to scope out the plunder of a randomly encountered caravan of guards loaded to bear with firepower when you desperately need the money.

Fallout 2 felt less like a coherent game and more like a tribute to the original, a showcase for the designer's talents with a silly mcguffin and a half-baked premise. That said, the high points of Fallout 2 were sublime examples of superior design philosophy and built solidy on the foundation of its predecessor. The end result felt incomplete... the space shuttle that did nothing, the quests that should have meshed but fell piecemeal.

The areas in fallout 2 that were badly sketched out or that had very linear dialogue and solutions... NCR, Vault 15+13... they stood out only because of their striking contrast against the incredible depth and richness of vault city and new reno.

And now that I get thinking about it, let me be so bold as to say that New Reno WAS Fallout 2 to me. Everything laudible about the game was showcased in that one town and its environs (despite the silly random encounters out in the wilderness with the yakuza??!).

Of course, harsh and restrictive development cycles are to blame for most of the crap us game players get fed, and we are wary because of it. I need only indicate that Chris Avellone, designer of NEw Reno, and his buddies from the Fallout 2 days, were also responsible for the disaster that was KOTOR 2. Between buying that thing and the shovelware that was Battlefield 2 around the same time, I gave up on video games entirely for the better part of a year (and wow did I get a lot done!).

I didn't hate Fallout tactics. I even played it through twice. It was cool. It was a salute to its predecessors. It got atmosphere and theme pretty much nailed on the head. But it was what it was, and it wasn't the RPG we were all hoping for.

In the non-Fallout vein, my all-time favourite game is Baldur's Gate 2. Most fans of that game contend it's the best written RPG of all time, and I have to allow it gives Fallout a run for its money. The depth of interaction possible with the NPCs, the layering of the sidequests, the complexity of the backstory... and what better mcguffin is there than to chase after immortal power or to need your own soul back? Giving seperate branches of quests to different 'classes' of characters did its bit to ensure replayability.

Ok so, ranting aside, here's my wish list for Fallout 3:

REPLAYABILITY

Interesting NPCs (Myron, baby, Myron!) They should talk to each other
as much as they talk to me.

Strategic combat! I want to kick people in the balls!

Bullet-riddled bodies flailing in mid-air as I burst-fire into them at close range.

No Temple of Trials, or give me a chance to opt out of it.

No space shuttles that don't do anything.

Esoteric sci-fi references in certain special random encounters.

Allow the character moral ambiguity, don't cast him as a 'hero'. Cast him as a scared guy with a gun in a hostile wasteland and let us develop him.

No pixel hunt quests please.

No goddamn arithmatic puzzles to pass doors or open chests, unless
you're gonna give us a 'science' skill check to bypass it.

Lots of cool perks found in-game are a more interesting tool for character development than just choosing them from a menu at level-up.

Scary-ass random encounters that we have to flee from with bullets flying over our heads.

Whores and porno mags.

Let's find out where those damn aliens are coming from!

Shopkeepers like Tubby that we can shoot in the head and loot. (And guards that afterwards go 'man what'd you do that for?')

A boy and his dog. Maybe Harlan Ellison. And rage-infected monkeys. Seriously; Fallout 1 and 2 were jam-packed with every allusion and literary reference the creators could muster up.

That's my two cents.

Good hunting, Emil!

[VasikkA]

pardon me for saying things that have already been said a billion times.

When it comes to certain design issues, they need to be said over and over again.

The other highpoint was the strategic depth of the sometimes nearly-impossible combat encounters which were invariably optional. What fun to scope out the plunder of a randomly encountered caravan of guards loaded to bear with firepower when you desperately need the money.

I don't know why, but the combat encounters in Fallout felt more challenging than they felt in Fallout 2. Perhaps it was the 'clock is ticking' survival atmosphere that was present throughout the game, or lack of firepower early in the game or both. That made the firefights in Fallout more memorable than in Fallout 2 where they only were a nuisance.

The areas in fallout 2 that were badly sketched out or that had very linear dialogue and solutions... NCR, Vault 15+13... they stood out only because of their striking contrast against the incredible depth and richness of vault city and new reno.

Also the fact that Fallout 2 had nearly double the amount of locations(too lazy to check) which inevitably results in hasty town design(Redding, Klamath, The Den). Questmills; towns with no soul. 'Cool, another generic shacktown', you thought when you entered a town for the first time. Inner tensions(New Reno, Junktown) or striking personas(Vault City) were absent.

And now that I get thinking about it, let me be so bold as to say that New Reno WAS Fallout 2 to me. Everything laudible about the game was showcased in that one town and its environs (despite the silly random encounters out in the wilderness with the yakuza??!).

New Reno stood out from the rest, both designwise and settingwise. Although I also liked how Vault City and Modoc('chicken' coop, blowing up the shithouse! etc.) were designed, I always came back to New Reno either because of an errand or just to check out what's new. It also had a central location on the world map.

I agree with what you said about Baldur's Gate. Despite it being fantasy and using the D&D ruleset, it's an incredibly in-depth CRPG classic worthy of recognition even in the Fallout community.

boy and his dog. Maybe Harlan Ellison. And rage-infected monkeys. Seriously; Fallout 1 and 2 were jam-packed with every allusion and literary reference the creators could muster up.

I'm fine with references to sci-fi classics and other easter eggs only if they are well hidden and not part of the core game like they were in Fallout 2 and Vampire: Bloodlines.

[PsyckoSama]

What, to you, constitutes Elder Scrolls "flavor"? Are you referring to "swords and sorcery," "first-person," "topic lists," or something else entirely (or all of the above)? I'm really curious to know where YOU guys draw the distinction.

Basically all of the above... though I could make an exception for swords, no sorcery though. Sorcery bad.

[Mosey]

2Bethsoft_Emil

Final movie... In my opinion, it would be good, if it has been realized not in the form of a set of static pictures (as it has been realized in Fallout 2), but in the form of movie which would change depending on the accepted decisions and the actions accomplished by the player.

[Killzig]

cut scenes are soooo last gen.

[DarkUnderlord]

Also check out the mug! Look familiar?

Yes, a standard EPA approved Fallout Shelter sign.

http://www.epa.gov/radiation/students/symbols.html

[box]

curious to know where YOU guys draw the distinction

Dialogue, sir. Sprawling dialogue trees stuffed with poignant, complex, politically incorrect whatnot. All the atomic hyper-vertex sunflare rendering in the world won't compensate for shoddy, shitty dialogue.