Interplay Attempts to Pimp DAC

[Haris]

Now take a good look at that picture. It has crafting tree just like uo and wow has, it has skill requirments just like uo and wow have and resource requirments just like uo and wow have. Now tell me what is all that good for if its just used for making ur self one armor and one weapon? Or even just upgrading you armor and weapon. You mean you would have to raise crafting skills just to advance one armor? No, its just obvious it was going to be used to trade with other players or suply a faction like brotherhood or slaver for example. If you look at the picture its not a npc you bring some stuff to so he can make you the item like crafting works in most single player games.

That crafting tree is pretty similar to one you bashed in Wasteland merc except it has even more items to craft and thats mainly cause fallout 2 has less items than van buren was going to have. So Rosh cut the crap about van buren crafting was going to be like in all other single player games crafting. Cause according to that screenshot it wasnt.

And about mmo being hard to make comercial and shit you are on about. Sure i dont think Harve can pull it off specially cause he is trying to go full blown wow stile mmo without any staff that can make it or money to make it. But there are comercial mmos that have worked before with no budget at all. You dont have to invest 100 million dollars in 100 huge servers to start with like wow did just to make it work.

Dont belive me take a look at runescape.com, i hate it but it was still made by 2 guys as school project at they are now making money out of it.

[Rosh]

Now take a good look at that picture. It has crafting tree just like uo and wow has, it has skill requirments just like uo and wow have and resource requirments just like uo and wow have.

That doesn't mean that it's a MMOG mechanic, nor does it mean that Fallout was going to become more like a MMOG. Again, learn the fucking difference between MMOG and co-op, you ignorant piece of shit.

Now tell me what is all that good for if its just used for making ur self one armor and one weapon? Or even just upgrading you armor and weapon. You mean you would have to raise crafting skills just to advance one armor? No, its just obvious it was going to be used to trade with other players or suply a faction like brotherhood or slaver for example. If you look at the picture its not a npc you bring some stuff to so he can make you the item like crafting works in most single player games.

Ah...so you think you have to turn-in items for it to be "single-player item crafting", but you don't for "MMOG item crafting".

HAHAHAHAHHA! Wow, boy, you're such a clueless tard, it's becoming painful to watch you humiliate yourself like this. Ultima and other games didn't require another person at all - Fallout and a few others involved speech trees. Ultima allowed you do use world objects and such without talking to someone at all, where do you think they got the idea for your beloved UO?

Try to think for once, child.

That crafting tree is pretty similar to one you bashed in Wasteland merc except it has even more items to craft and thats mainly cause fallout 2 has less items than van buren was going to have. So Rosh cut the crap about van buren crafting was going to be like in all other single player games crafting. Cause according to that screenshot it wasnt.

According to history, you're a fucking moron. We bash Wasteland Merc because of the GAMEPLAY being entirely nothing but shitty MMOG elements. There isn't anything else worthwhile in there, or anything at ALL, to really be considered a game. It's a series of repetitive tasks that has little effect upon the game world, if there was a game world to begin with, which there is...if you count the empty garbage common to most MMOGs. Whereas in Van Buren or in other games like Ultima and Gothic, it was used to add depth to the world. It wasn't to mill up 100 suits of PA so you can make PA MKII.

And about mmo being hard to make comercial and shit you are on about.

You tried to equate FOOL to Fallout 3 in terms of commercial failure. You're so clueless, you're pathetic. One requires a comparatively extensive amount of setup, and you don't try for 1 million subscribers by hosting it out of your bedroom.

[Haris]

It wasn't to mill up 100 suits of PA so you can make PA MKII.

Again take a look at the screenshot dumbass, what are you blind?

[MR Snake]

Rosh IS blind deaf and stupid, but then, I have been saying that all along.

[Rosh]

It wasn't to mill up 100 suits of PA so you can make PA MKII.

Again take a look at the screenshot dumbass, what are you blind?

A skill requirement, and materials requirements. Both of which fit into the existing setting and mechanics already. There is, however, nothing to support making an incessant amount of the items. In fact, it would look rather similar to Jagged Alliance 2's item creation, except that in JA2 there's no separate screen (just right-click and combine), and no displayed skill/item requirements.

Now I'll bet you'll try to argue that the items are meant to be mass-produced, because they have schematics or some stupid shit like that. Don't bother.

[Haris]

Sorry but JA2 does not ask you to combine 18 robes and other resources to make 1 combat armor.

[Rosh]

Sorry but JA2 does not ask you to combine 18 robes and other resources to make 1 combat armor.

Ah! So multiple items = MMOG, where single items = single-player? Wrong.

Sorry, your continued "logic" still makes no sense. And you expect this feeble shit to validate your last six or so pages of stupidity? Amazing.

[Haris]

Oh comon, nobody in his right mind would take a look at that pic and say: "Oh yes that reminds me of JA2 crafting system." Quit fooling your self.

[SuperH]

Hairs I'm not sure how to ask this politely.

Do you have a learning disability? Really? I'm entirely serious when I ask this, because there seems to be some sort of issue here.

If you haven't been diagnosed, you might want to go in for some tests. Your replies here seriously make my head fucking hurt.

[Haris]

SpuerH why dont you go back to pming people rap lyrics or something?

[SuperH]

SpuerH

I suppose I rest my case. Seek help?

why dont you go back to pming people rap lyrics or something?

Oh good you got it! Ok.

[Rosh]

Oh comon, nobody in his right mind would take a look at that pic and say: "Oh yes that reminds me of JA2 crafting system." Quit fooling your self.

Another lame-ass tangent because you were proven full of shit about the last thing you were proven to be an idiot about, and you keep dragging it out. No, I didn't say it would LOOK and FEEL like it (only that it would look to operate a similar way of having skill requirements and require objects to be combined with others to make...more objects!), so keep that irrelevant idiocy away, child. I said it essentially was no different, in that it required components and required skill levels. Same fucking operation, essentially, it makes a goddamn object from other objects, it should be simple enough so that even you are capable of understanding that point.

Now you seem to be caught up on what presentation it was used in. Sorry, but in a co-op game, with skill and mats requirements essentially no different than any other game (JA2: you can make X-Ray scanners all you want depending upon how many components you find in the game), it still doesn't mean that Van Buren was some plan to make Fallout like a MMOG. The design is different, in particular that a co-op game has a shitload more choice and consequences than a MMOG (as in, a MMOG has NONE), despite the presence of an item creation element.

Yes, we are aware you're a moron without any clue of what you're talking about, you have proven it repeatedly ever since you claimed item creation started with MMOG games. Stop lying, stop being a moron, and stop posting about this topic; it's safe to say you don't know enough about design or design history to really understand that elements do not "belong" to a genre, like "levels" to a CRPG, game elements can exist in many other genres without having anything to do with another genre's gameplay. It is now time for you to learn that, child.

[Haris]

Just a question. When did interplay start first talking about fool? Before or after they canceled Van buren?

[Rosh]

Just a question. When did interplay start first talking about fool? Before or after they canceled Van buren?

That still won't "prove" that Van Buren was going to "more MMOG gameplay" because of two elements, or anything else you pull from your ass. It would be like saying that Ultima XI was meant to be a MMOG because of the RT combat and how UO was already in existence.

Just give up, child.

[Haris]

Well i will give up the disscussion cause i got nothing to gain from it. It doesnt mather that much to me. But i still stand by the idea that Fallout world and game mechanics would work best in a mmorpg. It would be hell of alot closer to setting than warcraft is to world of warcraft and it wouldnt ruin a single bit of feeling to it. It would just add to it. It would make it so much more fun. If you dont like my opinion, there is nothing i can do about it.

[Rosh]

Well i will give up the disscussion cause i got nothing to gain from it. It doesnt mather that much to me.

In other words, you ran out of tangents because we expect something a bit more logical.

But i still stand by the idea that Fallout world and game mechanics would work best in a mmorpg.

And then don't back this idiocy up with any kind of proof. The "proof" you do give is another reason why Fallout SHOULDN'T be skullfucked for morons like Ultima->UO. There is more to a world than shallow mechanics; too bad you've never cared to notice.

It would be hell of alot closer to setting than warcraft is to world of warcraft and it wouldnt ruin a single bit of feeling to it. It would just add to it. It would make it so much more fun. If you dont like my opinion, there is nothing i can do about it.

Probably because there's no way you can ever hope to substantiate any of your claims, as your reasoning is entirely subjective. I guess you *are* a moron that likes to do repetitive shit instead of play a game. The rest of us, apparently, feel otherwise. Some of us also remember what Ultima was, and what UO did to it. We are also capable of playing Fallout in ways other than "I kill shit! I loot shit! Fallout r teh gratest!" Yet you try and give that high regard and say it's good for Fallout, without bothering to explain how, except that it would be HAPPYFUN!

So, anything else you'd care to say, or are you finished mumbling around Herve's cock?

[SuperH]

Wait, this entire time you were arguing PRO Fallout MMORPG?

I thought you were arguing against, saying that item crafting shouldn't be in true fallout because it is an mmorpg feature...

You are starting to make sense, in a sick, twisted way I almost understand - formally at least - what the hell you were on about.

Now I can say, for sure, Haris, that you are entirely wrong in every opinion you've posted.

[frissy]

I'm just curious that has there EVER been anything that Rosh would have been wrong on? Or proven wrong? I fairly sure that there is a condition where a perseon denies every other explanation/truth/idea that isn't his/hers own. It doesn't matter what you tell them, it's always just plain simple wrong.

As for the stupid idea that we should only talk about game mechanics or ideas for a game when there is actually a chance to change something. If there isn't a game being made or it's not in the phase where there can be outside influence...we should all shut the fuck up? wtf is that all about?

Sorry, FO3 is already in production, so shut the fuck up with the ideas? Another matter which you constantly rely on is the fact that certain issues have already been discussed a few years back (you mentioning 97-98 is quite hilarious...10-years back...) is very lame. You of all people (the game design genious) should know that the world goes forward. Hell, it didn't work ten years back, so why the hell should it work now? Perhaps because there are new people, new ideas, new technology...anything. If you stop discussing ideas, then you stop progress (but in your case...only your ideas are valid and have solid arguments...even though they are your arguments)

I'm not saying you are wrong, because you are not (this thread), but proving that by showing the other one is a complete retard because he doesn't support your point of view is equally stupid.

Perception: No idea...hmm...I didn't have an idea (plus why did you drag it here?), but someone else other than you might have one, but you still manage to find decade old arguments and facts why something cannot work. How about listening, and let others do some brainstorming and afer the dust settles you can demolish their ideas (with a even bigger grin).

I know personally as a designer that it's very easy to scrap someones idea if it doesn't looke like it will work or it's completely retarded in your opinion, but after a while when the person (as being another designer) gets his shit together the ideas starts to shed some light.

But i still stand by the idea that Fallout world and game mechanics would work best in a mmorpg.

Holy shit, even I'm not that retarded! I'm simply on the agend that it's possible to make a FOOL without losing too much of the feel (needs work), but as Fallout mechanics working best...hell no. I mean you can't even move the mechanics onto a MMO, not without changing the mechanics. Feel yes, mechanics no.

[MR Snake]

Fool is going to be a game where you battle rats in instances and get rifles and equipment which you then sell to lower lvl fools for cash so you can aquire potions and upgrades to your weapons so you can function better as the warrior class.
Of course there will be healing classes, sniper classes, assasin classes and of course as you know, warrior classes.

The mechanic skill trait will allow you to build big vibrating monster machines sort of what Rosh has in his nightstand to please himself while watching Michael Jackson in Im bad to use in battle with raiders whom in return will also drop phat loot for you to barter with.
this is because the industry is rules by 14 year olds who pay for their games unlike Roach who downloads them and well,, you get what you pay for.

[Haris]

We are also capable of playing Fallout in ways other than "I kill shit! I loot shit! Fallout r teh gratest!" Yet you try and give that high regard and say it's good for Fallout, without bothering to explain how, except that it would be HAPPYFUN!

Well you asked for it.

In single player crpg fallout everything is a stupid npc scripted to act and feel certain way. If you kill entire town your rep goes down cause game is scripted that way. In mmorpg if you go and kill entire group of players your reputation can have all kinds of unexpected turns. They can hate you and form bands of other players to hunt you down and talk shit about you. They can say how cool it was when you came and guned them all down with a minigun and word spreds. That is just one of minor things that makes mmorpg games 10 times more fun and deep than single player games where you go "ops i killed that guy i should reload or i wont be able to solve that quest."

I mean you can't even move the mechanics onto a MMO, not without changing the mechanics. Feel yes, mechanics no.

Actually its doable, even to keep turnbased combat, only thing it would have to be timed so you have like intx10 seconds to act or something. That way worldmap would be used to walk and when you step on same grid as another player you would load map like random encounter and get to talk to him or kill him or whatever you want to do.