Interplay Attempts to Pimp DAC

[Rosh]

I'm just curious that has there EVER been anything that Rosh would have been wrong on? Or proven wrong? I fairly sure that there is a condition where a perseon denies every other explanation/truth/idea that isn't his/hers own. It doesn't matter what you tell them, it's always just plain simple wrong.

I've been proven wrong about a few things, but that's generally because I tend to make sure I have my facts beforehand and don't post bullshit bullet-lists of skills as if they're supposed to make everything suddently work "if they do it right..."

That line right there makes me so fucking sick, because it excuses so much ignorance and idiocy under the presumption that people can do the impossible. There is NO WAY to preserve the Fallout setting in a MMOG environment, and I'm not the first one to point it out - I remind you again that the original designers point out some clear facts years long before your stupid ass showed up.

As for the stupid idea that we should only talk about game mechanics or ideas for a game when there is actually a chance to change something. If there isn't a game being made or it's not in the phase where there can be outside influence...we should all shut the fuck up? wtf is that all about?

From mostly a side-note, I was saying that if you're going to wait for Bethesda to let you speak, then you deserve the game that Bethesda delivers. The same goes for any game's development. They already have a design and such planned and in the works, have for some time now. But when it becomes publicly announced, it will be far too late for anyone to do anything about it, and much will be dishonestly slipped in or neglected mention like the leveling scheme in Oblivion.

That kind of thinking, along with "it can be done if done right", is bullshit and dangerous. I've been around the industry for quite some time, so please try to make me consider your feeble and unbacked opinion to be upon the same level as years of work and experience. Or don't, and save yourself some time.

Sorry, FO3 is already in production, so shut the fuck up with the ideas?

No, because certain individuals decided to reward people putting their jobs at risk to leak info with useless bickering and ignoring the info, not many at Bethesda are willing to risk their job anymore to break the blacklist. And the amusing show Emil put on a bit ago is exactly where Bethesda wants Fallout fans - ignorant and waiting, rather than being able to point out flaws from early on.

Another matter which you constantly rely on is the fact that certain issues have already been discussed a few years back (you mentioning 97-98 is quite hilarious...10-years back...) is very lame. You of all people (the game design genious) should know that the world goes forward.

Hell, it didn't work ten years back, so why the hell should it work now? Perhaps because there are new people, new ideas, new technology...anything. If you stop discussing ideas, then you stop progress (but in your case...only your ideas are valid and have solid arguments...even though they are your arguments)

SPEECH skills being useless in player environments have been a topic since...well, since MUDs have been around. Your feeble attempts to chime in "it can be done if it's done right" has little bearing, and is in fact quite stupid.

I bring up the mechanics for some good reasons, given Haris' latest bit of stupid, and these issues are from just a few that even Fallout's designers have addressed in regards to game and setting construction:

I would also like to see you reinvent physics to allow a TB combat round to exist in the same time cycle as a RT free roam.

I would also like to see you make condensed time work with travel, between multiple entities in different locations, because we all would just LOVE to wander around in a real-time wasteland over distances of miles between locations.

I would also like to see you make it so that the population saturation and ratio didn't make the entire census of the game world imbalanced with OMFGUBER warriors and raiders, all in the same little dinky town.

Yes, I'd like you to prove the impossible, because like a dumbshit you just went into topics you now presume to have an understanding about. So, let's have the answers.

I'm not saying you are wrong, because you are not (this thread), but proving that by showing the other one is a complete retard because he doesn't support your point of view is equally stupid.

I didn't base it upon not supporting my view, I based it upon facts, which are easily identifiable by waking the fuck up. You and Haris need to get a clue, or go off and get married, because the delusions are getting pretty lame in stereo.

Perception: No idea...hmm...I didn't have an idea (plus why did you drag it here?),

but someone else other than you might have one, but you still manage to find decade old arguments and facts why something cannot work. How about listening, and let others do some brainstorming and afer the dust settles you can demolish their ideas (with a even bigger grin).

Like how I just took apart your feeble "brainstorming" about Perception and other crap you couldn't bother to think about, and still can't be bothered to think - instead using the excuse that other people can think it up. So I guess we should all sit back and wait for cold fusion and the perpetual motion machine to arrive...

...

...any moment now...

...

Still waiting.

I know personally as a designer that it's very easy to scrap someones idea if it doesn't looke like it will work or it's completely retarded in your opinion, but after a while when the person (as being another designer) gets his shit together the ideas starts to shed some light.

You'd make a great motivational speaker for cattle. Other than that, you still need to come up with something other than "it can be done!"

We've heard that before, and unless you have some of the answers to the above, you're in no place to casually dismiss previous incarnations of this topic. In particular when about "ten years later", some idiot (this would be you) is again posting the "it can be done if they do it right!" garbage.

We're still waiting for proof of the impossible.

In single player crpg fallout everything is a stupid npc scripted to act and feel certain way. If you kill entire town your rep goes down cause game is scripted that way. In mmorpg if you go and kill entire group of players your reputation can have all kinds of unexpected turns. They can hate you and form bands of other players to hunt you down and talk shit about you. They can say how cool it was when you came and guned them all down with a minigun and word spreds. That is just one of minor things that makes mmorpg games 10 times more fun and deep than single player games where you go "ops i killed that guy i should reload or i wont be able to solve that quest."

Except in a MMOG, you can do a bit of world PVP, farm, farm, farm, quest, farm, farm, farm, raid until you randomly get something your class, farm, farm, farm, farm, farm, and keep on farming until you realize it doesn't matter, the game is going to be the same every day.

Oh, yes, that sounds MUCH better than playing through something that offers a story, choice and consequences, etc. That was sarcasm.

Also, you'd have to be pretty stupid to think that killing a town wouldn't get you bad rep. Well, we're discussing tou. However, unlike a MMOG, single-player games are able to give encounters far different than killing a guard or two and hoping that someone isn't defending the city.

Actually its doable, even to keep turnbased combat, only thing it would have to be timed so you have like intx10 seconds to act or something. That way worldmap would be used to walk and when you step on same grid as another player you would load map like random encounter and get to talk to him or kill him or whatever you want to do.

Yeah, I love how you just went into the whole "world map" thing. Someone care to explain how the condensed time would work with multiple locations, entities, events, or am I the only one who cared to think that far in-depth with a slight bit of familiarity of physics?

Then there's the TB combat only occuring at random map locations. That would break down if put into a city location or anywhere with non-combatants, as some would be moving and others not, and then there's the point of waiting your turn to get in a cheap sniper shot while Combatant A and Combatant B take their turns in combat while the rest of the city wanders around them in real time. Hey, combat can occur anywhere in Fallout, and city locations wouldn't be an exception.

If I appear to be condescending, it is for a reason. Compared to me, you're not even human.

[Fa11lloutfan_15]

We should make Rosh administrator just so that he would ban Haris.

[Haris]

Yeah, I love how you just went into the whole "world map" thing. Someone care to explain how the condensed time would work with multiple locations, entities, events, or am I the only one who cared to think that far in-depth with a slight bit of familiarity of physics?

Then there's the TB combat only occuring at random map locations. That would break down if put into a city location or anywhere with non-combatants, as some would be moving and others not, and then there's the point of waiting your turn to get in a cheap sniper shot while Combatant A and Combatant B take their turns in combat while the rest of the city wanders around them in real time. Hey, combat can occur anywhere in Fallout, and city locations wouldn't be an exception.

Look there is a tweak and fix for making all that work well. I could go in to that like if someone start a combat in a town area everyone gets in to combat with that player being highlighted red as combat starter and when he dies combat ends and all get to loot him. But whats the point of me explaining in every detail how fallout mmorpg would work perfectly when you would just go on nitpicking it in to every little details untill we have entire flawless gamedesign concept?

[S4ur0n27]

What's your job, Rosh?

[Cthulhugoat]

We should make Rosh administrator just so that he would ban Haris.

And everyone else.

[frissy]

I would also like to see you reinvent physics to allow a TB combat round to exist in the same time cycle as a RT free roam.

I don't need to, because someone else already did. As I said before.. DOFUS, DOFUS, DOFUS!

It's a MMORPG and has a TB tactical combat, but otherwise it's RT. The turns are limited with a time period, but I don't see that as a problem, because you usually don't take too long to think your options in Fallout either (unless you go to the loo). Plus it's a online game.

RT MMO with TB combat. Am I missing something...? Isn't that what you are so hard trying to prove that it cannot excist?

And I would also like to know you job is Rosh. So I can read the news when some co-worker went postal.

[Haris]

Seriosly why bother arguing with Rosh, if you remove insults from his miles long posts you find 2 lines of text that are actuall arguments and not total bull that is suposed to make him look smart. Most pathetic ones are when he tries to pass UO as failed game when it sold 1 million copies had 5 expansions and even today with 9 years old graphics and wow as competition they still menage to keep 135000 suscribers at same cost as wow.

[Nicolai]

Don't worry, be happy.

[Dan_Wood]

Don't worry, be happy.

Unless you're a former Interplay employee, it's 'don't worry, the first of the month is soon.'

[Wolfman Walt]

Geeze, what the fuck did I miss this morning?

[S4ur0n27]

Bah, nothing.

[Wolfman Walt]

Well, atleast nothing out of the norm.

[S4ur0n27]

You'd think we're on NMA though.

Rosh and Kharn coming over here to discuss with Haris...

Why don't you just unban him from NMA?

[DaC-Sniper]

Haris has beaten the huns from NMA back.

edit: he should stay

[frissy]

[Rosh]

Look there is a tweak and fix for making all that work well.

Of course a "tweak" will make it work, in your tweaked-out brain it does work. However, back in the real world, it doesn't. You can't have condensed time work for more than one mobile, you unbelievable retard. You can't have two scales of time measurement and expect them to again match up. You should look up what is theorized to happen when someone moves close to the speed of light, while the other is stationary. Time moves faster for the one moving at the speed of light.

Nearly the same effect happens when one person stays in a location in Fallout, time progressing normally, while the traveller in condensed time is moving at a much faster rate of speed/time.

What you don't understand, and don't realize because you're an idiot that hasn't touched anything worthwhile in game development/design, is due to Fallout's condensed time, whenever the player uses the map screen time advanced for everyone in the setting.

So while the VD is moving from V13 to Shady Sands, time in V13 and Shady Sands is accelerated accordingly. In a MMOG environment, the time scaling breaks down. A is at V13, B is at SS, and C is the traveller. Starting from 12:00, C leaves and goes through condensed time for map travel, ending up at Shady Sands about eight hours later (arbitrary figure for example purposes). The time for the player to travel is but a few seconds, and seconds after leaving V13, C arrives at SS "eight hours later", to meet up with B (who is still at 12:00, maybe 12:01 by now). So that means either time has to be sped up for A and B to match the time C has for travelling, to put them all at 20:00, or that C is now at SS at 20:00 while A is at V13 at 12:00, and B is at SS at 12:00. So who would determine the day/night schedule? Or is condensed time going to go out of the window in place of a completely bullshit map travel that just speeds up the actors?

That is why Van Buren's co-op, much like others that use condensed time for map travel, relied on the party zoning together.

I could go in to that like if someone start a combat in a town area everyone gets in to combat with that player being highlighted red as combat starter and when he dies combat ends and all get to loot him.

Looting rights and flagging someone as a lootable aggressor has jack shit to do with TB combat in the middle of town while everyone else is in a RT roam. Your best defense, due to your failure in experience and being able to understand simple combat concepts, is to make them lootable for everyone in turn?

Swing and a miss.

But whats the point of me explaining in every detail how fallout mmorpg would work perfectly when you would just go on nitpicking it in to every little details untill we have entire flawless gamedesign concept?

You're right. Why bother explaining your idiotic, baseless, and bullshit "it would work!" crap as long as someone can debunk it? Just admit that you don't have a clue about that which you're attempting to discuss, and drop it.

Seriosly why bother arguing with Rosh, if you remove insults from his miles long posts you find 2 lines of text that are actuall arguments and not total bull that is suposed to make him look smart. Most pathetic ones are when he tries to pass UO as failed game when it sold 1 million copies had 5 expansions and even today with 9 years old graphics and wow as competition they still menage to keep 135000 suscribers at same cost as wow.

Moron, they had well over 1 million subscribers, and the raping of the franchise by EA isn't a good thing unless you're a simp that cares less about story and setting and "OMG! I can farm ore for daaaaays!"

Compared to Ultima circa 1990ish, where it had multi-millions in sales, had far better gameplay, and regularly drew a good following, instead of the idiots like you that now follow the game because they added White Trash Ninja bullshit that has nothing to do with the Ultima setting. Oh, and MMOG gameplay in place of a game, because dealing with the intellectually stunted in half-ass gameplay is *everyone's* idea of "a good time".

I also find it amusing that you pull some erroneous sales figures and population reports from your ass, while also ignoring that a large influx of combatants into the Fallout universe as an issue. Take a look at the setting construction now. Now imagine a few hundred fuckwits running around in it. Britain used to be pretty nice...before UO came along and became nothing but "vendor buy the bank from the guards".

And whenever someone points out what a clueless shit you are, you do the same pulling of tangents out from your ass, and when backed into a corner involving real design importance, you can't answer worth shit, instead pulling out how you can cure cancer...but you can't bother to explain how.

I don't need to, because someone else already did. As I said before.. DOFUS, DOFUS, DOFUS!

It's a MMORPG and has a TB tactical combat, but otherwise it's RT. The turns are limited with a time period, but I don't see that as a problem, because you usually don't take too long to think your options in Fallout either (unless you go to the loo). Plus it's a online game.

RT MMO with TB combat. Am I missing something...? Isn't that what you are so hard trying to prove that it cannot excist?

TB combat CANNOT work alongside RT roam, at the same time. Turns don't exist then, or they are put into a separate combat field a la The Realm.

Which is exactly what DOFUS has, thank you failing to note that, shit-for-brains. A separate field for combat in a different manner but still mechanically similar to The Realm's combat clouds. Again, TB COMBAT DOES NOT WORK ALONGSIDE RT ROAM. There is no way to suddenly give a game like UO or WoW TB combat. It is either going to have people stuck in turns while others are running around, or it will put them on a completely new combat field (DOFUS removes all non-combatants...yeah, that REALLY would work for Fallout's setting). Maybe next time when I cite a reference, you might think to actually think about it instead of coming up with shit that just barely has some relation to the discussion and yet still proves my point.

I'll repeat myself for your benefit:

Until you start to remember that in MMOGs, real-time combat is a given in the mainstream, and TB combat doesn't really work in an environment unless you have something like The Realm's combat clouds.

This is just one issue, and you expect me to take you seriously or honor your uneducated opinion when you can't be bothered to even half-ass pay attention to the concepts?

And I would also like to know you job is Rosh. So I can read the news when some co-worker went postal.

All that time at NMA, and you still hadn't figured it out? Yes, you ARE more stupid than previously estimated.

You'd think we're on NMA though.

Rosh and Kharn coming over here to discuss with Haris...

Why don't you just unban him from NMA?

Actually, I'm no longer at NMA, because of their laziness in wanting everything to be handed to them without much effort on their own really started to disgust me when Silencer, Kharn, or Sander couldn't even bother to read their own fucking news forum for a clue. I wasn't about to reward those with integrity still at Bethesda who wanted to speak despite putting their jobs at risk, by giving a bunch of lazy and clueless slum-lords free information that they couldn't even be interested about when it's first hinted at, then plainly said with background context thrown in for extra effect. And yet, they argued away those details in favor of insisting that Bethesda hasn't said anything official yet. So I guess they're waiting to reprint press kits while having an easy target of Herve, while Corith and others hand out free info to them as per usual.

DAC, however, noted the items mentioned by VDweller, along with the context of other elements presented.

And Haris does deserve to be punted regularly, because stupidity like that should be a crime.

Haris has beaten the huns from NMA back.

Nah, it was just an interruption caused by a momentary concentration upon more worthwhile topics. AKA, sleep.

[Haris]

I also find it amusing that you pull some erroneous sales figures and population reports from your ass,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_online#Overview

[Fa11lloutfan_15]

Thread needs more praise for Hitler.

[Rosh]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultima_online#Overview

About UO's subscription figures:

Upon release in mid-1997, Ultima Online proved to be very popular, reaching 100,000 paying subscribers within six months of release. Subscriptions grew for several years reaching a peak of some 250,000 paid accounts.

Inconsequential to today's market, where there's more than a few dozen in competition. It is also inconsequential compared to the number of sales Ultima had when the series was going strong, before it was little but a collection of crappy elements that were supposed to pass as "gameplay". One million in sales is rather pathetic when you consider how much Ultima sold before then.

About Fallout 3 being as much of a commercial failure as a FOOL, being put on the same level:

The project started in 1995 and was shown to the public at E3 in 1996. At the time (in the mid-1990's), Ultima Online was a very expensive project and quite risky for the company. The development cost was much greater than traditional computer games, it relied on people accessing servers with modems, and it attempted to transform the Ultima series into an entirely new genre. Ultima Online was an ambitious game on a number of fronts, such as:

I hope you care to understand it this time.

The part where Haris selectively goes blind:

Ultima Online continued the tradition of previous Ultima games in many ways, but due to advancing technology and the simple fact that it was Origin's first persistent online game, there were many new game mechanics as well. Partially designed as a social and economic experiment, the game had to account for the widespread player interaction as well as deal with the long history of players feeling as if they were the center of attention, as had been the case in single-player games. New to both the developers and the players, a lot that was planned never happened, and a lot that was unexpected did, and many new game systems were put in place to compensate.

About UO holding a substantial share of the audience, including more sales figures:

Subscriber numbers peaked at around 250,000 in July of 2003, and to date sit around 135,000 subscribers (approximately 70,000 of which are Japanese). Ultima Online holds a 1.1% market share of massively multiplayer online game subscriptions.

You failed to note that they are mostly Japanese, one of the few games many can still play with outdated versions of Windows, and that the audience is not interested in a name-rape for long, especially after the original designers (Origin) are no longer around. Mostly, it's Japanese and White Trash Ninjas, the type of idiot that doesn't notice or care, and who apparently can't understand simple design concepts.

You, in other words.

Thread needs more praise for Hitler.

I petition to make Haris an Honorary Jew.

[Jesus Christ]

I petition to make Haris an Honorary Jew.

NO!

I will not have it.