Interplay Attempts to Pimp DAC

[SuperH]

Gunnez akimboes!

I would imagine that that is probably not EC canon either.

It was probably just a Matrix ripoff

[atoga]

Fallout is very *little* Mad Max/Road Warrior.

debatable. while the art, backstory, and all that other is 'straight' from a 50s retrofuture (only gone to shit), i'd say the survivalist aspect of the game, the gritty feel of combat, etc. was much more influenced by the road warrior. mutants and most of the weapon choices aside, i see very little 50s EC influence here. and hey, that sorta leaves room for akimbo guns as a possibility.

you seem to be under the impression that fallout is taken pretty much directly from EC comics, when it's really much more subversive than that.

[Rosh]

Gunnez akimboes!

I would imagine that that is probably not EC canon either.

Not generally, no. Good find, however, as that is also one of the few examples where dual-pistols were not shot alternatively in a Western, though it might have been to make the cover a bit more full of "action".

Besides, that series was from their Western writing division, not the sci-fi division.

debatable. while the art, backstory, and all that other is 'straight' from a 50s retrofuture (only gone to shit), i'd say the survivalist aspect of the game, the gritty feel of combat, etc. was much more influenced by the road warrior.

And where Fallout also used pugilism and other forms of Americana, it doesn't seem to befit the Americana styling by including an element made popular by wuxia movie directors.

mutants and most of the weapon choices aside, i see very little 50s EC influence here.

Much of their sci-fi and also their horror line-up (they tend to overlap) may be seen in the methods and stylings of Fallout. Much of EC was about morality, including having *gasp* a black astronaut, and more creativity about the horrors of mankind gone awry. Also note the comic loading screens (prices, too) and the art style used in much of the game.

Then I could pull out my trump card, point to Creepshow (or to an even better example, Tales from the Crypt), and also point to Fallout's dark ironies integral to its overall setting that prevail over any other setting point.

What threatened mankind pre-war? Nuclear war, and biological warfare.
A virus is devised to combat against the biological warfare, the FEV.
Mankind nukes itself.
Dark Irony 1: That which was to be mankind's savior in the time pre-war ironically is looking to become mankind's ultimate destruction, the FEV in The Master's hands.
Dark Irony 2: The device that killed the world, a nuke, is used to save the world from what was originally intended to save the world.
Dark Irony 3: The Vault Dweller, after having saved the world, is cast out for potential of causing problems. Originally, it was planned for an ending where you could become the next Overseer through your example (or be cast out for being a badass, leading to a Wizardry-like re-entrance from a tirbe or a Vault, but this was cut very early on), and the original Killian/Gizmo ending had to be reworked mainly due to Feargus MacFatass and others not liking things too dark and felt that the rewards should be more obvious.
Dark Irony 4: Original Junktown Ending.

and hey, that sorta leaves room for akimbo guns as a possibility.

Yes, and it also leaves room for trenchcoats, Japanese swords, and a whole bunch of other quite irrelevant crap compared to something that really doesn't fit except for munchkinish reasons. Where, except for recent pop culture, Westerns (and even then they fire alternatively), and John Woo flicks, have guns akimbo so they should be included into Fallout because someone says they should be, because it makes their jollies tingle? Hm? Please, give some examples of why it should be included when other styles point that it should not, and then maybe I can accept there to be a reason to really entertain the concept. I know why Bethesda would include it, and that's because it's COOOOOOL!

And there you have your reason why Fallout 3 is going to suck ass, because of the "wouldn't it be cool" Lowest Common Denominator method of development. Now, because I'm curious, I will have to inquire about that point. However, if you loved Deus Ex 2, you'll probably like Fallout 3 from what I've already heard about it.

you seem to be under the impression that fallout is taken pretty much directly from EC comics, when it's really much more subversive than that.

No...just recently I've had to re-remind people about the styles and general setting design from where Fallout gets its roots. If you wanted to get into a 15-page disection of each element and where it is attributed from, then you're shit out of luck because I don't have that kind of time and the developers didn't tell me about everything*.

* - Some things, like the bot design, were taken as obvious enough.

[atoga]

a claim that you don't find dual-weilding entirely convincing, wrapped in an irrelevant slippery slope argument.

i thought you were better than that, rosh.

[SuperH]

Yes, you're right. All of that explicitly precludes the ability for an individual to fire two weapons at one time.

[Megatron]

i can fire 2 guns at the same time, cowboys have been doing it forever

[Redeye]

If the "50's" continued on to 2077, some permutations might have arisen.

The "Cowboys vs. Indians" fad/fetish of the '50s might have been recommodified so many times that it became a ludicrous parody of "Cowboy vs. Indian", complete with dual-wielded rayguns and horses with fins on them.

[MR Snake]

Then I would say something like "What about the obvious Road Warrior influence?" to point out that it might not be exclusively styled around 50's EC comics, and then Rosh would say "That is just a small stylistic influence and has nothing to do with the setting."

Fallout is very *little* Mad Max/Road Warrior. There are some obvious influences of it readily available, such as the lost man in a lost world setting, the leather armor, and several other easter eggs, but otherwise it has a backstory and setting more to 50's EC comics than to Road Warrior.

Except for the silly tribal shit.

Also ignoring silly things like http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/album_ ... ic_id=1289

Except that you're not firing them at once, they occupy different weapon slots. Akimbo implies same-time firing.

?

;););)?!!

Dont try to be friendly, keep your own personality when you post thank you.

Moron

[frissy]

I really don't see how Akimbo would "destroy" anything, just add. Perhaps it's not he most setting correct (which is still under debate), but it still doesn't take anything away from it.

I'd think it's a nice add, but nothing more. As for realism (Which is pretty useless point, because we don't have plasma's or PA's...) it's plausible. I tried akimbo in the military, and it works at point blank range. You get 2x damage, but as for aiming...heheh...point blank baby...). Reloading is a bitch though..

[TelemachusSneezed]

I never liked Rosh since the great akimbo minigun debate of '02.

So all this would be the "Great Akimbo Minigun Debate of '06."

i can fire 2 guns at the same time, cowboys have been doing it forever

If the "50's" continued on to 2077, some permutations might have arisen.

Well, that settles that:
(1) People have been dual-wielding since the Dawn-Of-Time (DOT): clubs, guns, women, etc.
(2) Fallout, while '50s influenced, is not set in the 1950s. Thus, creative license would be well justified if your only argument is that "it doesn't fit the '50s."

QED

[Dan_Wood]

I have no idea what the fuck Rosh is nattering on about; if it's appropriate to have akimbo weaponry, it will be in the gorram game. If it isn't, well... it'll be in there anywho.

About the only thing Rosh is doing is giving potential Interplay investors a reason to back away slowly.

Which is fine by me.

[Thorgrimm]

I'm just curious that has there EVER been anything that Rosh would have been wrong on? Or proven wrong?

Just saw this thread, and to answer your question Frissy, yes Rosh has been wrong, And I called him on it.

In one thread he made the extremely funny claim that logistics has no place in modern war. Man myself and my friends in the Corps got one hell of a belly laugh out of that. And the funny thing was he was berating a poster who claimed that logistics were relevant. Talk about an arrogant know-it-all who did not know shit about the subject.

And Rosh, good luck trying to explain how you had all your facts on that fuck up on your part.

Then I caught him i a bald faced lie when he said he had won THREE or more purple hearts in the US navy. Talk about delusions of granduer.


Now on the subject of wielding two firearms in a Fallout setting, Rosh is quite incorrect to say it is not part of Fallout's setting, EC Comics had quite a few comics that had characters wielding two weapons. So by his own logic, it should be allowed.

Now that being said, and I shudder to think I actually agree with him on something, anybody who has fired a real firearm will know that recoil and muzzle climb will prevent you from hitting anything more than five feet in front of you, and even then only with the first five ropunds. In fact the safest place to be with somebody wielding two firearms is right in front of them.

So I would say if it was allowed, make it a minor miracle to hit anything. But I would say leave the two weapon armed fantasy abilities where they belong, in a fantasy, not sci fi setting.




Cheers, Thorgrimm

[SuperH]

Of course, it is perfectly realistic for a single man to be able to hold and fire what by all accounts should be a vehicle mounted machine gun

They didn't even try and pull that off in the Matrix, eh?

[Redeye]

In one thread he made the extremely funny claim that logistics has no place in modern war. Man myself and my friends in the Corps got one hell of a belly laugh out of that.


Cheers, Thorgrimm

"Amateurs talk about tactics, Professionals talk logistics."

Where is that from?

Google has lots of matches but I didn't find attribution.



Edit:

Maybe Rosh was thinking of the "Come as you are party" concept of European conventional war vs. the Warsaw Pact in the '70s/'80s.
Obviously logistics would be a huge issue, but if he was thinking of stuff already in Europe as "already delivered" then it might not have counted as "Logistics" in his mind. In the above scenerio there might not be enough time to send a huge amount of stuff across the Atlantic. (CAVALRY convoys, Air Bridge, etc.) You'd still have to move stuff around inside Europe, across the English Channel, etc.

I haven't read the thread with Rosh's post, I'm just trying to guess what he might have been thinking.

[Brother None]

I really don't see how Akimbo would "destroy" anything, just add. Perhaps it's not he most setting correct (which is still under debate), but it still doesn't take anything away from it.

I think the debate would be a lot easier if Akimbo wasn't related to the kind of blunt, stupid-but-campy action of the Matrix or Tomb Raider. I'm not saying it's exclusive to that, but the fact that the major executers of akimbo right now are campy and simple things kind of means it might hurt the Fallout setting.

Much like katana's.

It definitely wouldn't *add* anything, I'd say.

Man myself and my friends in the Corps got one hell of a belly laugh out of that.

...You and your "friends in the Corps" spend your time laughing at internet posts?

Man, pride of the army, or what?

[Thorgrimm]

...You and your "friends in the Corps" spend your time laughing at internet posts?

Man, pride of the army, or what?

Kharn, like a poor marksman, you STILL keep missing the target.

What we laugh at is fools who talk shit about the military and do not know what the fuck they are talking about yet try to pass themselves off as knowledgable.

And I see you still can't read, or are not quite smart enough to know what the Corps is, And since I do not think you are, I will inform you, the United States Marine Corps. An entirely different branch from the army.

See Kharn, even little boys like you can learn something new each day.




Cheers, Thorgrimm

[SuperH]

Why NMA pissing contests here

[Redeye]

[Haris]

Why NMA pissing contests here

Cause they baned everyone that had anything fun to post on nma.

[St. Toxic]

Cheers, Thorgrimm :afrika korps: