Children of Men

PiP · Post by **PiP** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 5:14 pm

Thor Kaufman wrote:its vagueness kept the film from potential plotholes and shitty explanations for stuff
just use your imagination :rainbowsmilie:

I actuall think it had plotholes and shitty explanations. Like 'how is the baby gonna help them stop immigrants' harassment' hole and WTF they want from that baby altogether, other than it's 'OMG first baby evah!'
Or, the 'with mankind dying out and imminent scarcity of manpower immigrants should be fucking welcome, at least made some sorta slaves' logic-hole
Or the deus-ex-machina fucking 'human project' that just pops out and saves the day fucking 'shitty explanation'

Tho I'm totally cool with the reason for infertility being a mystary. I liked that. Oh yea the joke.. not really an explanation just a hint at perhaps being ignorant and destroying the environment

Mystary it shall stay for its benefit

All in all, the shortcomings of the flick fade away and what holds in memory is a contemplative guy trying to get drunk in a dreamy film of saving a baby and petting his hurting memories of his own baby in a chaotic world of 2 groups of crazy baddies. The film is also good for M. Caine, ofcoz.

Thor Kaufman · Post by **Thor Kaufman** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:46 pm

How would Subby say, Caine is pretentious and overrated

I don't mind him, he was ok, I think.

Also I don't really care about so called plotholes, as long as the movie has good drama, shootings and decent actors I'm fine.

They said the baby is going to help to stop immigrant harassment? There could be several reasons, building up on the premise that there will be hope since mankind could survive after all, leading to a new (rebel) government and whatnot.
The slave thingie sounds like a nice twist, but why do you rule out that they don't use the fugees as slaves? They are held in detention/concentration camps, after all, remember?

I don't think those were plotholes at all, but that's moot talking, anyway, talking plotholes is for the most part like pseudophilosophy or sth

:commando:
Also, if one's talking dystopias/fantasy in general, that's a weird point, anyway. If one was talking realistic scenarios, documentaries or whatever, one may mention plotholes

johnnygothisgun · Post by **johnnygothisgun** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:11 pm

PiP wrote:I actuall think it had plotholes and shitty explanations. Like 'how is the baby gonna help them stop immigrants' harassment' hole and WTF they want from that baby altogether, other than it's 'OMG first baby evah!'
Or, the 'with mankind dying out and imminent scarcity of manpower immigrants should be fucking welcome, at least made some sorta slaves' logic-hole
Or the deus-ex-machina fucking 'human project' that just pops out and saves the day fucking 'shitty explanation'

what? all of your points are completely irrelevant and stupid

1. the baby isnt going to stop the harassment of immigrants, thats not what clive owen was attempting to achieve, he was simply trying to get her to the human project, if anything the immigrants were hampering his efforts. you did realize that the fish were bad guys here, right?

2. they want the baby and its mother so that they can find out how she had the child, so that some sort of solution to the problem of fertility can be found

3. why the fuck would immigrants be more welcome because of an 'imminent scarcity of manpower'? the world is ending, dipshit, the government is simply attempting to keep order in jolly old england because the rest of the world has collapsed

4. how is the human project boat coming difficult to believe? as an audience we see and hear only what clive owen sees and hears, and as such we dont know much about it, because before the person who knew more about it could explain it to us, she was killed, and now our beautiful clive owen ass is on the run, and we've only got the few scraps of info we received at the beginning of the film. how very :seatofyourpants:

are you retarded? i thought that was all fairly obvious

PiP · Post by **PiP** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:15 pm

Thor Kaufman wrote:as long as the movie has good drama, shootings and decent actors I'm fine.

They said the baby is going to help to stop immigrant harassment? There could be several reasons, building up on the premise that there will be hope since mankind could survive after all, leading to a new (rebel) government and whatnot.

pretty undone for the thing/person around which the whole plot revolves. Oh well, my impression.

The slave thingie sounds like a nice twist, but why do you rule out that they don't use the fugees as slaves? They are held in detention/concentration camps, after all, remember?

I rule this out because all the immigrant fun is about getting them the fuck outta the Island, plus they're carelessly slaughtered in large numbers.

I don't think those were plotholes at all, but that's moot talking, anyway, talking plotholes is for the most part like pseudophilosophy or sth :commando:

well yea pardon my being an asshole

Also, if one's talking dystopias/fantasy in general, that's a weird point, anyway. If one was talking realistic scenarios, documentaries or whatever, one may mention plotholes

bullshit bro, we can discuss ANY plot or story be it reality or fiction (and this distinction is dubious anyway). You can say some author/reporter deliberately made holes in the logic of a plot, but that's another kettle of fish. Or we can question the notion of logic as such, but that's yet another kettle

PiP · Post by **PiP** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:38 pm

johnnygothisgun wrote: what? all of your points are completely irrelevant and stupid

that might be true

1. the baby isnt going to stop the harassment of immigrants, thats not what clive owen was attempting to achieve, he was simply trying to get her to the human project, if anything the immigrants were hampering his efforts. you did realize that the fish were bad guys here, right?

I've never said Owen was trying to use the baby for anything; it was Fishes who had some big mysterious plans. I thought it was fucking obvious I was talking about Fishes

Also, no, Fishes aren't the bad guys here, Mr Bright. The bad guys are people in general (exemplified by government on te one side and fishes and islamists on the other side), the evil from within whom is brought out by particular conditions; in this respectthe film is very much like the famous The Plague by Camus. There are few exceptions to this 'everyone's evil in a way' rule in the film(babies and protagonist - lol) It was one of the major points of the film that there is no one defined 'bad guys' group for crying out loud.

2. they want the baby and its mother so that they can find out how she had the child, so that some sort of solution to the problem of fertility can be found

thanks Sherlock. Point is this issue was not exploited to the extend it should - in my view of course.

3. why the fuck would immigrants be more welcome because of an 'imminent scarcity of manpower'? the world is ending, dipshit, the government is simply attempting to keep order in jolly old england because the rest of the world has collapsed

because in an ageing society you need some manpower (and there's less and less of it) to support the ruling class and 'keep order in jolly old england', 'dipshit'

4. how is the human project boat coming difficult to believe? as an audience we see and hear only what clive owen sees and hears, and as such we dont know much about it, because before the person who knew more about it could explain it to us, she was killed, and now our beautiful clive owen ass is on the run, and we've only got the few scraps of info we received at the beginning of the film. how very :seatofyourpants:

it's not "difficult to believe", it's just stupid. It's a deus-ex-machina that the author pulled out of his arse to batten the gigantic whole in the plot's motivation, but it's just pathetic.

are you retarded? i thought that was all fairly obvious

you're lucky this is the internet, retard.

johnnygothisgun · Post by **johnnygothisgun** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:05 pm

what? all of your counter-counter points were of the "well, what i really meant was this" variety

Thor Kaufman · Post by **Thor Kaufman** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:58 pm

Clive Owen wanted to have sex with the baby

Aneurysm · Post by **Aneurysm** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:03 am

I bet Pip is drunk

PiP · Post by **PiP** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:24 am

johnnygothisgun wrote:what? all of your counter-counter points were of the "well, what i really meant was this" variety

not my fault you missed all the points

Blargh · Post by **Blargh** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:29 am

Worry not Don, it is not your fault that pIppy is a compulsive employer of sluggishly inappropriate emoticons.

VasikkA · Post by **VasikkA** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:10 pm

PiP wrote:Like 'how is the baby gonna help them stop immigrants' harassment' hole and WTF they want from that baby altogether, other than it's 'OMG first baby evah!'

Well, the fact that the pregnant lady was an immigrant would've been harmful for the government's anti-immigrant policy(IIRC, it was mentioned that the Government would try to conceal this fact if they would discover the baby). However, it seemed to me that the baby was of secondary importance to the Fishes. Their main objective was to cause some sort of rebellion. And they were dumb hippies anyways.

PiP · Post by **PiP** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:30 pm

VasikkA wrote: Well, the fact that the pregnant lady was an immigrant would've been harmful for the government's anti-immigrant policy(IIRC, it was mentioned that the Government would try to conceal this fact if they would discover the baby).

oh, right

But it was merely touched upon and really felt like some provisional solution, some impromptu story telling (like it was made up during a party by the charcter played by Woody Harrelson in ScannerDarkly, while stoned), while it's a professional script based on a book

Blargh wrote:Worry not Don, it is not your fault that pIppy is a compulsive employer of sluggishly inappropriate emoticons.

says the

boy

Megatron · Post by **Megatron** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:03 pm

we dont need more immigrants here already ok, why bother having them as slaves? and it wasnt really deus ex bullshit, that was why they went on big fucking journey in the first place. and even then its only half a macguffin as its also sanctuary for the baby.

PiP · Post by **PiP** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:52 pm

Megatron wrote:we dont need more immigrants here already ok,

ffs mate but people haven't been infertile for the last 18 years, right?

why bother having them as slaves?

because slaves are even easier to explot than illegal immigrants?

and it wasnt really deus ex bullshit, that was why they went on big fucking journey in the first place. and even then its only half a macguffin as its also sanctuary for the baby.

maybe but for me it felt like some idiotic fairytale fairy-godmother (har har) and a forced, easy, silly solution.

Ahh fuck that, I stop writing in this thread

VasikkA · Post by **VasikkA** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:49 pm

PiP wrote:Or, the 'with mankind dying out and imminent scarcity of manpower immigrants should be fucking welcome, at least made some sorta slaves'

I thought Great Britain was presented as an isolated, last bastion of a civilized society in the movie. As you know, it's OK to mistreat (illegal) immigrants in a civilized society while practising slavery is a no-no. Perhaps it was a protective measure to keep the borders closed.

On the other hand, the movie didn't really elaborate on the immigrant situation to the viewer, among with other key issues like the Human Project. I think it's important to note that the movie didn't even try to explain half of the stuff we saw so it felt(at least for me) like a ride through a fucked up world from Theo's(Clive Owen) perspective. At least this movie has evoked a lot of questions instead of trying to explain every little detail. I liked the element of uncertainty in the boat ending.

Ahh fuck that, I stop writing in this thread

Blargh · Post by **Blargh** » Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:28 pm

pIppIn wrote:says

Sometimes, I would almost consider worrying about you. Alas, concern walks before it while neglect and memory make disturbing noises through the walls.

<img src="http://www.duckandcover.cx/forums/image ... _drunk.gif" width="220" height="220">

MR Snake · Post by **MR Snake** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 7:27 pm

80 friggin hours downloading it from this horrible torrent crap and I just noticed that it somehow got deleted!

And it was a good movie.

Snake gets burned again.

Post by **Dogmeatlives** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:36 am

I loved this movie. There post-apoc movies and pre-apoc movies but you don't really see the during apocalypse stuff often and on such a grand scale. Glad the dvd is coming out this week.

P.S.: Robocop is on now. What a fucking great movie! I would kill for robo-cop's gun. Actually I have already killed for it but I found out later that it was just a prop. You win some, you lose some I guess.