Defining (The) Fallout(s): Part 2

Post by **King of Creation** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:07 pm

[ Community -> Editorial ]

So I thought I had posted this news earlier, but apparently it didn't work.Anyways, Mismatch has written <a href="http://www.duckandcover.cx/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16716" target="_self">the second part</a> in his series "Defining (The) Fallout(s)." Here are some important parts:<blockquote>... This insecurity somehow made security feel more secure. Regardless
of how you felt about they treat mutants and ghouls at Vault City, I
know that you, at some point, glanced at the grass and dreamt of just
sitting down. You were more than willing to trade freedom for a sense
of security and calm. No matter how short the moment was, I'm rather
sure it was there. ...The Fallout's story isn't merely a story of violence in a radiated
wasteland. It is a story of belonging, of fear of the unknown and
intolerance, of how isolation breeds suspicion and one mans quest to
once and for all end these fears, end the suspicion, the hate and the
intolerance(FO1) but in the end he manages to increase it and gives
birth to an attempt to cleanse the world of anyone who is not
genetically a human(FO2)....Let us be satisfied with the fact that Fallout is special. And so
is SPECIAL. And susan. There isn't much more to say. Well, actually
there is, much much more. But I hope someone else will since writing
about special isn't very exiting and I assume that reading about it
isn't either.</blockquote>Go and <a href="http://www.duckandcover.cx/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16716" target="_self">read it</a>.

Post by **King of Creation** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:09 pm

While I may not agree with everything, I'm still happy people are writing.

Urizen · Post by **Urizen** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:58 pm

i just wish "people" didn't mean "Mismatch". what's the point of spending time writing this stuff when you know the typo's and inconsistencies will make sure no-one reads it? this kinda thing makes me a bit frustrated. don't people understand that not caring about your text shows that you don't care about your readers?

Post by **King of Creation** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:11 pm

It's articles like this, though, which spark more discussion on what it actually means to be Fallout. Lots of people disagree with what Mismatch has written, so it's my hope that people talk about why they disagree in order to further establish consensus.

Thor Kaufman · Post by **Thor Kaufman** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:42 pm

I didn't read it, but since Mismatch wrote it, it must be good, thus I concur with his ramblings. :dak:

Cimmerian Nights · Post by **Cimmerian Nights** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 9:17 pm

King of Creation wrote:It's articles like this, though, which spark more discussion on what it actually means to be Fallout.

OK I'll bite.

One thing that significantly differentiates FO from previous cRPGs is the Spaghetti Western style over your cliched fairy tale, sword & sorcery genre. FO is wrapped in a Post-apocalyptic package, but the tone is more Fistfull of Dollars, High Plains Drifter, and Seven Samurai. The lone wanderer, wandering from town to town, wary townsfolk beset by some corrupt/violent band. The choice is to side with the stregth of the gang and trample the weak, or stick up for the downtrodden little guys (who incidentally turn out not to be such innocent, simple townsfolk). Or play one another off each other for your own gain (since either side is only interested in you so far as they can exploit you). In the end it doesn't really matter as all that's left to do is fight.

Mad Max's story itself is reminscent of the Spaghetti Western in this sense. No denying that visually (black leather w/shoulder pad, sawed-off shotgun etc.) Mad Max is a huge influence, but thematically, I see the cynical dry westerns of Clint Eastwood fame, and the western inspired Kurosawa films a huge influence.

Are you listening Bethesda? Go rent Yojimbo and The Good, The Bad and The Ugly already.

PsychoSniper · Post by **PsychoSniper** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:33 pm

Agreed Cinamen.

So many RPGs are fantisy and fairy godmother type games.

FO was differnt, unique, fresh, and worth playing simply because it WASNT like them.

Thor Kaufman · Post by **Thor Kaufman** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:52 pm

Also, it's extremely awesome and fun running around as a berserker in FO1 killing all people and children with targeted shots to the balls. Name another RPG where that's possible except FO2.

VasikkA · Post by **VasikkA** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:48 pm

Mismatch wrote:The Fallout's story isn't merely a story of violence in a radiated wasteland.

...

It is the story of Richard Grey.

I don't agree. In my opinion it was the story of the Vault Dweller; the waterchip and the Master only functioned as MacGuffins but what really mattered is what the player did or didn't do in the gameworld. I considered the endgame slideshow more important as they covered all your actions as a whole instead of the main quests, which only took 10% of your time.

It is hard to imagine Fallout without SPECIAL and not think about FO:POS.

Bear in mind that most non-DACers have no idea what those acronyms mean. You could've elaborated more on why SPECIAL and turn-based combat are so awesome instead of argumenting why they're essential to a Fallout game. After all, the title is "defining Fallout". Perhaps this article shouldn't been written so hastily.

Brother None · Post by **Brother None** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:08 pm

VasikkA wrote:I don't agree. In my opinion it was the story of the Vault Dweller; the waterchip and the Master only functioned as MacGuffins but what really mattered is what the player did or didn't do in the gameworld. I considered the endgame slideshow more important as they covered all your actions as a whole instead of the main quests, which only took 10% of your time

4too made some great points on the subject on NMA

PsychoSniper · Post by **PsychoSniper** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:23 pm

NMA ?

How :werebannedanddontcare:

Fallout is a story of stories, from the prespective of the vault dweller.

Its the story of the VD, of dogmeat, of Ian, of Tycho, of Katja, and of all the things effected

Wolfman Walt · Post by **Wolfman Walt** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:25 pm

Does anyone have any idea what 4too does exactly for work? You know, besides make us all feel inept at communicating intelligently.

PsychoSniper · Post by **PsychoSniper** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:28 pm

I belive he has a rule.

He only postes when drunk and stoned off his ass.

Thing is, he could blow shit out his ass, and still sound profound cause we can barley understand him.

4too, a true patriot :: salute ::

Brother None · Post by **Brother None** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:57 pm

PsychoSniper wrote:Thing is, he could blow shit out his ass, and still sound profound cause we can barley understand him.

Uhm...some of us understand him just fine.

4too:

""... The Horror, The Horror ... ""

Nice to see the attention given the back story. Richard Grey and Harold get their day.

Kharn:

... Grey is still the most interesting character in the games (him and Harold), but the game isn't *about* him. *His* decisions have been made, *his* history is nearing its end (either in victory or loss) at the start of Fallout 1, the Vault Dweller is there to change it, which makes him the focal point of the story, as Sander said. ...

The rise and fall (splash) of Richard Grey has a J. Conrad twist.

Conrad's "'Heart Of Darkness"" had the narrator's discovery of the 'hero' [who has made all ""his''' decisions''] the 'hero' gone native, gone wild, become a shock ending for that time. Conrad's story stopped at the realization.

More apt parallel comparison might be "'Heart Of Darkness"" as viewed in ""Apocalypse Now"".
That narrator - protagonist is on a mission which fundamentally changes over time.
''The End'' is not to end ''The Horror'' [of the Vietnam War], too big for one mentally scarred, ex innocent,
but to end the suffering of a ex hero gone rogue killer.

" " ... Cmon baby, take a chance with us
And meet me at the back of the blue bus
Doin a blue rock
On a blue bus ..." "

Nice to see attention go beyond the that blue jump suited gopher's Fed Ex grindings, and how some text back story built up an epic of ascending hero's journey's.

..............

""... The Horror, The Horror ... "" Part 2

Oh, back story and text, in this Nex Gen spirit of the moment , aren't back story and text, unsellable, a.k.a. ""dead"' too.

Nex Gen zeitgeist, that First Person view that MUST BE REAL because it's just like TV.
The friendly fire on bystanders and the retaliation by the local posse [that's on the nightly news], can't be REAL enough for the Nex Gen.
Ballistic consequences muddy the immersion.
TV, that lowest of the common rationalizations for the highest return in denominations.
What won't sell, fades away.

Glanced at a few MS Xbox mag's and somewhere in all that pimped out, pumped up thrill of the console wars is an attitude that mice, keyboards, and - text - are "dead''.
I presume that all magazine content is edited, so I presume that "'reading teh hard"' is an editorial stance for these glossy game ad vehicles.
Ironic that by the time Microsoft is the only PC OS and the only game hardware purveyor, no one will be reading / buying magazines, and the sales for MS Office will be slumping.

No reading, no writing, no competition, a - word 'perfect' - win win for .....

yet another 'new' dark age awaits.

4too

S4ur0n27 · Post by **S4ur0n27** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 8:54 pm

On the opposite, I always feel more intelligent after reading 4too's post.

He has a point.

Mr. Teatime · Post by **Mr. Teatime** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:40 pm

I don't actually think I've read one of 4too's posts. It just seems like too much work, though if it's the way he likes to communicate, that's cool... I don't think he's an attentionseeker like Gromnir is/was (remember that dude? HAH GOOD FUN!).

Brother None · Post by **Brother None** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:05 pm

Mr. Teatime wrote:I don't actually think I've read one of 4too's posts. It just seems like too much work.

It is a lot of work, but too much?

Nah.

4too is a profoundly original thinker and "knows his shit", combine the two and he'll often shoot of a very original or just generally smart observation into the conversation. The fact that he surrounds it with bad English can be annoynig, but doesn't really detract from the point.

Thor Kaufman · Post by **Thor Kaufman** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:46 pm

4too seems like one of those savants to me, very blarghian, but I can hardly get much meaning out of most of his posts unfortunately

VasikkA · Post by **VasikkA** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:13 pm

Read between the lines(not literally!) and his posts start to make sense. Reading 4too's post is like watching a piece of art, without the boredom.

Insane-Lark · Post by **Insane-Lark** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:25 pm

They usually make sense to me, are often poetic. Repeadted thoughts are driven home to underline ideas.