Fallout 3 in May issue of PC Zone UK

[jetbaby]

Koki wins at this shit. Seriously.

[frissy]

Also remember, you are talking about A FIRM! that has investors.

I also think that everything you pointed out should be that way, but I isn't. That sort of thinking will ONLY work if the investment side comes from inside (aka, he who makes it, pays it).

You are only thinking about the employee (who probably likes a steady job, and money...because he likes MAKING GAMES and get LIVING OUT FROM IT. Alternative is no job, no money, basement with game designs all over it.

There is the other way also. Making something that stands out and cashes it in. There are those, but those rare. Just because people would stop making games for the "market" doesn't mean that the games will automatically become good.

Those who make good games, still make good games. Because they think. People who make shitty games will continue to make shitty games because they don't think.

You can create a GOOD game for the MARKET. Just because you think of money doesn't automatically mean you're going to do a crappy job at it. The key is to ALSO think about the creative side.

Only think about creativity = Daikatana (suckss........)
Only think about finance = FOBOS! (suckss....)
Think too long on the creativity and then finance = Stalker (not the game it was supposed to be)

but as you pointed out: "It's YOUR creation based on YOUR idea." Indeed! Shitty ideas won't become super!

If you want to seek guidance to support your ideas from console-whores, well that becomes a shitty idea (shitty idea to begin with).

Making money from the game can also be the IDEA OF THE GAME. Attack the ideas, not the way they get them. If they can't come up with good ideas they will never make a good game.


EDIT: just so fun to look at the NMA-thread and how they still bitch each others about "information on a platter" and "moronic". We actually debate, different views, but still pretty much solid arguments.

[DaC-Sniper]

The gamedesigners often make games too simple, but its also possible to be simple and complex, which unfortunatly happens rare.

Its all about girlie games shit.

[Koki]

'Ein Rollerspiel von Chris Taylor'

That made my day.

[Stainless]

You also shouldn't expect the lewdness of Fallout 2, as Hines reckons it got "a little too caught up in trying to be funny or controversial or whatever."

I think this is a mixed bag for me. I already saw it coming, and I don't need a gratuitous game. But it helped make the environment. It was a world where you didn't have much so basically you did whatever the hell you could to get a little room to wiggle, like Vic and Metzger. It also played into your characters attributes meaning more then a simple [charm] roll during dialogue, etc.

I don't think it's an absolutle must have for the game, but if the entire feeling of people doing what they do to survive (cynthia from Junktown for example) get the kiddy treatement, then it'll feel so very very shallow.

[VasikkA]

Also remember, you are talking about A FIRM! that has investors.

Bethesda is a financially strong enough brand to make something more experimental than just a game the plebs or a greedy publisher want. Financially, they will at least reach break-even and probably make a nice profit as well, no matter what the outcome is.

The question is, what they want to do with their unique position. Graphics, view perspective or even the combat system don't determine a game's sales, but rather the buzz it manages to create in the market. This can be achieved by a cunning marketing strategy or simply by doing something extraordinary. That is, something entirely different from what the market dictates. I'd hope that Bethesda reinstates old values back into the CRPG genre with Fallout 3, but we'll see.

As I've said before, a game that looks, sounds and feels like it completely accords with what the market expects is never going to become a classic. TES4: Oblivion being a prime example. You don't turn a dollar into a million without taking a risk.

From a gamer's perspective, as that's what we are supposed to represent, a game's commercial potential should be irrelevant. At least it is to me. I want an enjoyable game, damnit.

[philowar]

You also shouldn't expect the lewdness of Fallout 2, as Hines reckons it got "a little too caught up in trying to be funny or controversial or whatever."

My God, Hines actually said something I agree with. There's hope yet.

[philowar]

I don't think it's an absolutle must have for the game, but if the entire feeling of people doing what they do to survive (cynthia from Junktown for example) get the kiddy treatement, then it'll feel so very very shallow.

I think it was the over-the-top sex, drugs, and stupid jokes (that and all the retarded pop culture references) that made FO2 so very very shallow, as you say.

[Cimmerian Nights]

Gotta keep things in perspective, it shouldn't be at the expaense of humor altogether. Wasn't there some "Todd doesn't do jokes" quote from an interview before?

[Smiley]

I don't think it's an absolutle must have for the game, but if the entire feeling of people doing what they do to survive (cynthia from Junktown for example) get the kiddy treatement, then it'll feel so very very shallow.

I think it was the over-the-top sex, drugs, and stupid jokes (that and all the retarded pop culture references) that made FO2 so very very shallow, as you say.

Isn't he saying that it would be shallow if every NPC was like a kiddy treatment, like Cynthia?

(I don't even remember who cynthia is )

[Thor Kaufman]

I don't think it's an absolutle must have for the game, but if the entire feeling of people doing what they do to survive (cynthia from Junktown for example) get the kiddy treatement, then it'll feel so very very shallow.

I think it was the over-the-top sex, drugs, and stupid jokes (that and all the retarded pop culture references) that made FO2 so very very shallow, as you say.

Isn't he saying that it would be shallow if every NPC was like a kiddy treatment, like Cynthia?

(I don't even remember who cynthia is )

Me neither, and I'm kind of a walking Fallout 2 walkthrough. He probably just made it up for qfe.
If you'd ask him about it he'd probably say something along the lines of "yeah, you know Cynthia, that boy, err girl, guy that did ..you know .. stuff..I really don't want to go into detail at this point of development" or something :wannabe-props:

[PsychoSniper]

The lowedness in FO2 was poorley done.

However, the post appoc genra in general, and something as harsh as the FO wasteland specificly would make no sense if everything was clean.

Theres gona be groups of good people doing what they have to, bad people doing what they want too, mixed groups of both, and both sides of the fence will generaly do what it takes to survive.

[VasikkA]

The lowedness in FO2 was poorley done.

However, the post appoc genra in general, and something as harsh as the FO wasteland specificly would make no sense if everything was clean.

Theres gona be groups of good people doing what they have to, bad people doing what they want too, mixed groups of both, and both sides of the fence will generaly do what it takes to survive.

quoted for grammar awesomeness

[atoga]

Cynthia

cynthia was the prostitute at the crash house in junktown who you had to save.

[Dreadnought]

IIRC she offered me her vasheen after rescueing her from this guy.

[Cimmerian Nights]

you couldn't get laid in a morgue.

[Mr. Teatime]

I played FO2 more than Fo1. The game was larger and had more opportunities for different experiences based on your character.
FO1 nailed (and created) the setting and atmosphere though. However, drugs, prostitutes and (killable) kids were in both games and contributed to the atmosphere. This isn't a safe, cuddly place to be.

[Cimmerian Nights]

The sex, drugs and violence are in integral component, but they have to be implemented with some sophistication and should be for the purpose of adding depth to the atmosphere. Fo2 ran off the rails at some points with some 'character breaking' jokes and shit. BOS, well I never played it, but seems to be all about pandering to those who'd buy the game just to see some digital sluts.

FO3? I don't know that this inspires much confidence in the level of sophistication that we can expect:

You know, the humour in Fallout 3 is that you can get a weapon and blow a guy to a bloody mess, then when you pull up your interface, you see a little smiling cartoon character holding his thumb up. Like that's funny… funny not in terms of jokes or winks at the camera and such…

*sigh* what a douchebag

[Dogmeatlives]

:

You know, the humour in Fallout 3 is that you can get a weapon and blow a guy to a bloody mess, then when you pull up your interface, you see a little smiling cartoon character holding his thumb up. Like that's funny… funny not in terms of jokes or winks at the camera and such…

Peter went on to say "...because we aren't really funny people. I mean our games are completely without any humor, so we made it bloody and imitated the menu style of the old games. I mean that's pretty funny? Right?"

[Dreadnought]