Bethesda to fans: Pay up or go screw yourselves

Post by **King of Creation** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:49 pm

[ Game -> Editorial ] - More info on <a href="#Bethesda Softworks">Company: Bethesda Softworks</a> | More info on <a href="#Fallout 3">Game: Fallout 3</a>

Bethesda cares. They really do.Which is why you probably won't be seeing any information at all about Fallout 3 that you don't pay for. That's right. You're going to have to pay to see information about a game to decide if you want to then buy it. That <a href="http://www.duckandcover.cx/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17729" target="_self">Game Informer feature</a> we all sent our questions to? You have to pay to <a href="http://www.gameinformer.com/Magazine/" target="_self">see the answers</a>.
Think DAC or NMA will get another interview? Not if Bethesda's <a target="_self" href="http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index ... 7667">Gary "VXSS" Noonan</a> is right:<blockquote>Q. When will you all be allowed, if at all, to comment on this months feature in GI.
A. Most likely never. We give magazines the information to give to you all so that we don’t have to. Allows us to keep working.</blockquote> Yep....just the magazines apparently. But what if you don't understand what the magazines have to say? Doesn't matter <a target="_self" href="http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index ... >according to community director Matt Grandstaff</a>:<blockquote>As mentioned by VXSS, we’re not commenting on the information reported in the magazine…sorry guys.</blockquote>Oh, and apparently the Bethsoft devs don't care about fan input at all. From <a target="_self" href="http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index ... 9941">Gary Noonan again</a>:<blockquote>Q. If you, the developers, want the fans' input on how to improve the
game, why is no information released until things are already set in
stone?
I can assume the answer is, "My boss tells me not to," but can you prove my assumption to be wrong?

A. Because
as you put it, we, the developers, arent PR. As much as many of us may
want to, it is not our task to relay snippet of info after info to the
general public. So, in a sense, yes, it is a case of "My boss tells me
not to", but we also understand why, being on the inside. As for things
being released before the stone chiseling, we all know just how much
more gas would be thrown on the flames if info was released then pulled
back because of changes. Happens with all games.... simple knowledge
there.</blockquote> PR? I wasn't aware that fans voicing their opinion on what they want to see in the game that they will buy necessitated a PR strategy. Interplay and Black Isle sure as hell were better at it than Bethesda is. Do you know what Bethesda's PR strategy tells us? They just don't like or care about the fans or what they have to say. I'm not saying this is the case for the developers, but it sure seems like the case for their bloated PR department. But still, signs show that the devs don't take what we have to say to heart either, despite what they might say. Why else would Fallout 3 have completely different gameplay than either Fallout 1 or 2? How do you think Diablo fans would react if you suddenly changed the viewpoint and combat system so drastically? Diablo is just a twitch game anyways, so wouldn't the fans rather see it in first person or over the shoulder? Right guys???
 Spotted @ <a href="http://fallout3.wordpress.com/">Briosafreak's Fallout 3 Blog</a>

Mad Max RW · Post by **Mad Max RW** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:58 pm

I cannot wait for the apologists' spin on this one. How can anyone say Bethesda's actions are ok?

edhead · Post by **edhead** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:02 pm

Well, shit. I don't even think there is anything argumentative to say to that - it's all obvious. They just keep showing big bad "FUCK YOU" gestures straight to Fallout fans' faces. Because they just don't care. But I think it's possible that we'll get a free exclusive Gamespot hands-on preview some time later. It's not like they only like to hype-up magazines.

Post by **Dogmeatlives** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:33 pm

edhead wrote:It's not like they only like to hype-up magazines.

Unfortunately I really disagree. You are a true Fallout comrade KoC. Keep up the fight!

Brother None · Post by **Brother None** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:37 pm

Wow, zinger, KoC.

Not much apologism on this subject, Mad Max, just a few notes that it is, indeed, kind of stupid PR or that Bethesda doesn't owe us anything.

Thor Kaufman · Post by **Thor Kaufman** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:39 pm

Don't judge Bethesda before you have played the game

edhead · Post by **edhead** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:42 pm

It's not about the game, it's about Bethesda's standpoint towards fans.

Thor Kaufman · Post by **Thor Kaufman** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:46 pm

Don't judge Bethesda's standpoint before you have played the gayme

edhead · Post by **edhead** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:00 pm

Don't judge Bush before he invades Iraq.

Pope Viper · Post by **Pope Viper** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:03 pm

Why should they care about the fans? The fans are the ones who aren't going to suck up and embrace their version of Fallout.

Mismatch · Post by **Mismatch** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:31 pm

This is hardly a surprise really, we all knew that them bethesdians were a bunch of assholes. However they tricked us a tad by reading the forums and the vault and chit.

Post by **Dogmeatlives** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:32 pm

True. In my heart of hearts I always knew it would be the same garbage as Oblivion.

Dreadnought · Post by **Dreadnought** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:36 pm

SuperH · Post by **SuperH** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 5:47 pm

Brother None wrote:Bethesda doesn't owe us anything.

They don't owe us anything though? We didn't give them the rights to the game? They're not beholden to us in any way, no matter how much / often / hard we stamp our feet?

Post by **Dogmeatlives** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:11 pm

SuperH wrote:
Brother None wrote:Bethesda doesn't owe us anything.
They don't owe us anything though? We didn't give them the rights to the game? They're not beholden to us in any way, no matter how much / often / hard we stamp our feet?

Umm... yes.

johnnygothisgun · Post by **johnnygothisgun** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:21 pm

fallout has been dead since 2003, we should probably just get over it

S4ur0n27 · Post by **S4ur0n27** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:28 pm

Ha, if they think I'll be buying the game... I encourage everyone to just download it once it's out, make it so they lose money with that game.

aries100 · Post by **aries100** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:42 pm

And yet, the Bioware developers still have the the time to talk to the fans of Bioware games - on the Bioware forums. And sometimes even make funny jokes about omg --- zombie kittens

--- and stuff.

They even tried to answer the jack bauer in space thing that the good doctors went and got them twindled up in when they spoke to CVG. David Gaider have communicated more with the Dragaon Age fans in the Dragon Age thread in one week that Bethsoft's developers have communicated with their fans for the past year (or so). [And the Dragon Age community even managed to take over the Mass Effect community for a minute or two or maybe five, before the ME monster came and scared us all away

].

As for the "we all know just how much more gas would be thrown on the flames if info was released then pulled back because of changes. Happens with all games.... simple knowledge there" I really think that Bethsoft needs to have a long talk with Bioware on how to this.

Dragon Age once had necromancy where you enslave nations with this 'spell', but it was removed due to 'story & balancing reasons', as David Gaider once said on the Dragon Age forum. Other changes have been made to Dragon Age, some changes were either cut, changed or altered considerable from the first time, the community learned about the features being in Dragon Age. And David Gaider once told people exactly this on the DA forum, and basically told people who thought like this to bugger off, if they didn't like this.

There some that was sad

of course to see the ability to enslave nations with their necromancy
go away, but, irrc, mosty people were friendly about this, because they got a good reason for why this feature was cut from the game.

Bioware do also give out controlled information regularly concerning their games, ME and DA. They also answer each & every question sincerely (or at least try

) such as the question about jack bauer in space or what 'low magic' in DA really means??

It may be that Bioware devs. are not under as strict a NDA that the Bethsoft devs. are, but still with socrates200X saying 'they can talk about what's being talked about' then there really shouldn't be any hindrance from the Bethsoft's devs. talking about VATS or the new supermutant look - as they both are talked about in the GI article.

Why Pete or Todd doesn't go out and make a statement clarifying the whole situation, I don't know?? Maybe Donald Trump has decided that things should be kept in the secret as long as possible or the Zenimax board members make these decisions??

I don't know this, and neither do you. But I do know that you can talk to your fans, and not put more gas on the flames, if & when you explain how & why you do things, that also goes for how & why you alter things, also for things first promised to be in the game, then cut or altered at later date, during development.

I wasn't around TES (now BGSF) forums when Daggerfall was released, but it is my impression? that the devs. back then were much more talkative and interactive with the fans. Maybe this all started to change when Todd H. was made Executive Producer?? as it Todd's position to never defend or talk about anything the devs. have done in their previous games - at least that's the way I've understood his comments in an interview once.

Ghetto Goose · Post by **Ghetto Goose** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:43 pm

I think whats most frustrating about it is the fact that they aren't as far from a good game as previous ones. No matter how much input we gave, it never would have saved FOBOS. If they listened to us about his, however, they'd have a decent game.

And you'd think that Fallout 3, the sequel everyone wanted and clamored for, would be the one where they'd utilize the community the most. I can understand ignoring us for Tactics or FOBOS, because to make those games at all is to ignore the desires of the fans.

Mad Max RW · Post by **Mad Max RW** » Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:01 pm

They forget without a Fallout community surviving a whole decade there would be no interest in Fallout today. Bethesda does owe us.