Fans don't matter

popscythe · Post by **popscythe** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:40 pm

PiP wrote:you're tripping bortha. There's like one guy assigned the job of skimming forums every now and again and that's it.

I dunno, if someone was telling me every single day that the job I'm doing is being ripped into by real fans of the series, and everyone (including all the bought and paid for review shacks) know this, and mention it in every single fallout 3 preview, I'd probably make my way over on my lunch break and see what the fuck Pete is hanging people in the town square about.

Killzig · Post by **Killzig** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:14 am

Pherdnut wrote:Well, no hard feelings guys, uh... aside from "drink chlorine" guy, but I just wanted to offer some perspective.

sure. it isn't like this perspective is new to us, we hear the mockery.

I would have been spamtastically happy if they'd just given the game a makeover rather than extensive plastic surgery myself but the arguments I've had with people over at the official forums have been frustrating. I just think people are too quick to assume it's going to suck based on little to no information.

my assumption that it's going to be dull is based firmly on my experience with morrowind and oblivion.

People have been screaming bloody murder since before we had any real information on the game and even when some more encouraging facts come along, they continue to spout vitriol as if Bethesda was murdering puppies.

Maybe those are the type of people that resort to skinning puppies when bored?

It's kind of like the old-guard Transformers or Battlestar Galactica fans, IMO.

BSG is pain. How many times are they going to recycle that "WHO'S THE HIDDEN CYLON?" plot? Fuck that show and it's fans right in the ear. (Briosa excluded <3)

Sure I enjoyed that stuff when I was a kid but people got so hung up on the details and new directions of the new stuff that they missed out on two highly enjoyable experiences.

Devil's in the detail and if your previous work doesn't inspire confidence you're not likely going to get support for your "new" direction (new? bethsoft's formula is tired tired tired.)

In any case, if I've learned anything from being a critic for a few years, it's that you really can't possibly guess how good or bad something is going to be until you actually get your hands on it... uh... unless it's a motocross game. Ugh.

Or unless you have a keenly developed radar for shitty games. Most people do. Most people see a preview for something like Bullet Witch and say to themselves "Holy God, why would anyone play that?" most of us feel the same way about Fallout 3 except it's more like "Holy God, why would anyone think that was Fallout? Looks like a generic PA RPG got skull fucked by Nuke Dukem designers and they used Fallout-themed napkins to clean up."

Beth isn't doing Fallout 3 exactly as I would prefer

what are your concerns?

but they seem to at least be aware of Oblivion's shortcomings compared to the Fallouts where a lot of the RPG mechanics are concerned.

They do appear to want real dialogue. They do appear to understand that without doors closing for doors opened the game has nowhere near as much replay value as the originals. And they appear to be interested in making character build and character choices a lot more relevant than they were in Oblivion. And as goofy a compromise as the nonVATS portion of combat sounds, at least it still appears to be stat/perk relevant.

all of this has been shown to us by way of lots of lip service and not in any firm game world type of demos. I'd like to believe all they've said but I'm too concerned by what they've shown. They keep talking about shades of grey and then using this Megaton quest. This awfully ham fisted binary choice between VIDEOGAMEGOOD(tm) v VIDEOGAMEEVIL (tm) that it's really difficult to take anything they say seriously.

Don't get me wrong. I've got concerns and criticism too and I'll bet I've logged enough hours on both games to place me in the 99.99th percentile of obsessed Fallout nerds but seeing as how I'm still going back to the originals at least once a year,

Try establishing the street cred before you post the optimist type stuff next time you register at NMA/DAC.

I think I can handle FO3 not being the exact same experience with new NPCs, locations, and a graphics upgrade as long as they stick to the important stuff.

Yes, obviously we're Luddites for wanting a more robust RPG experience rather than the Action RPG they seem to be producing.

Maybe combat will be a bit silly

MAYBE? Did you play Morrowind? I can't imagine how the xbot kiddies are going to take having their reticle on a giant hulking super mutant and missing 14 times (as petey did with the laser rifle). A fire sector probably would have played better.

but taking advantage of turns to essentially make yourself invulnerable between attacks by stepping in and out of cover didn't make much sense to me either.

I had the same complaint about R6:V's cover system. I was completely invincible behind cover and not just that, I HEALED! WOOT! Must be all those tampons I stuffed in my gun shot wounds.

Nor did waiting a half an hour for 15 ghouls to move before being able to anything.

Hyperbole, speed slider. Maybe design combat areas better so you're not engaging 15 ghouls at once?

No system is perfect but BethSoft seems to be cherry picking the worst of all worlds.

cazsim83 · Post by **cazsim83** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:12 am

One comment about "all the fans complaining before anyone even saw the game"- It seems that most of the fears we had have been proven by Bethesda. Every once in a while, even the paranoid ones can be right.

Dreadnought · Post by **Dreadnought** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:33 am

We all know that we're right. That's why we're so full of hate.

Maximous · Post by **Maximous** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:25 am

I've done this over and over again.....

PAY MONEY TO A COMPANY....HOPING...THEY WOULD MAKE THE NEXXXXXXXTTTTTTTTTTTT Game BETTER.

They Never Fucking do. FO3 will NOT BE BETTER THEN FO2 let alone FO1.

Why pay these fucks money....they'll take it and run with it.

I'm not paying Beth for Shit hoping to get Silk in the future.

Thor Kaufman · Post by **Thor Kaufman** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:28 am

nah, paying money for bullshit is alright, play it business as usual

Dreadnought · Post by **Dreadnought** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:37 am

Look there's still the chance Fallout 3 will revolutionize RPGs....

Maximous · Post by **Maximous** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:46 pm

Thor Kaufman wrote:nah, paying money for bullshit is alright, play it business as usual

You've Got To Be Kidding....Explain

popscythe · Post by **popscythe** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:32 am

This just gets better and better.

Go team reason, go!

Go go go!

Pherdnut · Post by **Pherdnut** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:17 am

Was Morrowind that bad? I got the impression all the things the disappointed Morrowind fans didn't like about Oblivion lined up with what I thought was weak about it but I hadn't played an Elder Scrolls game since Daggerfall.

I'll say this for the reviewers though. For the first 20 hours of Oblivion or so, I thought it was every bit as good as folks were saying it was until I realized how few actual choices of consequence the game actually gave you, not to mention how poorly thought out and broken the totalitarian level-scaling was. I'd like to believe that if I'd still been reviewing games I would have taken the time to really hit it for a full weekend, but 20 hours is a big chunk of time out of a week when you have a lot of other material to cover.

My assumption was that they simply got too focused on what they could do graphically and also with the new physics system that they forgot that it actually takes some writing and game design to make a great RPG but if Morrowind was that weak too, I can empathize a bit more with all the negativity.

Regardless, I still think a lot of people are going way off the deep end. I think there's enough encouraging info on the game to warrant a wait-and-see approach rather than being absolutely steadfast about it sucking before screenshots were even available.

johnnygothisgun · Post by **johnnygothisgun** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:35 am

fallout is quite dead, just get over it

Dreadnought · Post by **Dreadnought** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:17 am

Pherdnut wrote:I think

Are you sure?

Pherdnut wrote:there's enough encouraging info on the game to warrant a wait-and-see approach rather than being absolutely steadfast about it sucking before screenshots were even available.

A total disregard to what Fallout actually is/was?
A team of people who never played Fallout 1 and/or 2?
A history of miserable failure regarding RPGs?
Almost total ignorance towards the REAL Fallout fans? (not those sissy-ass beth-fanboyz)
Lies.
Slander.
Orks.
Nuclear catapults.

How very fucking encouraging...

cazsim83 · Post by **cazsim83** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:24 am

Pherdnut wrote:I'm in bed with Bethesda.

Yeah, we figured.

fake edit-(cleaned for the news section - lucky it's not general or wasteland...)

Wolfman Walt · Post by **Wolfman Walt** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:30 am

D-Nut wrote:Orks.

Actually, if the game had real WAAAGH type Orks, I think it'd be an improvement. We don't even get that. We get....Fallout Orks.......Forks even.

Dreadnought · Post by **Dreadnought** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:33 am

I wrote that, not him.

But forks is lulzy.

Wolfman Walt · Post by **Wolfman Walt** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:35 am

Happy now?!

Dreadnought · Post by **Dreadnought** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:37 am

Almost...

http://bitchmakemeasandwich.com/

Wolfman Walt · Post by **Wolfman Walt** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:41 am

<A href="http://www.unitednothing.net/otherstuff ... .php">This would have been better.

Dreadnought · Post by **Dreadnought** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:44 am

Wolfman Walt wrote:<A href="http://www.unitednothing.net/otherstuff ... .php">This would have been better.

What is it? My browser blocked it.

Wolfman Walt · Post by **Wolfman Walt** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:47 am

Something better then a sandwich.