Sept. 11 and the War on Terror: Bullshit or Patriotism?

[Hammer]

What angers me the most are people who hated the United States before September 11th, but than right after they began to speak about how much they loved it. (Alec Baldwin comes to mind)

I was a patriot before September 11th, and I believe strongly in the constitution and my country, I joined the United States Army and was in it for 8 years, in those 8 years I was unfortunate enough to be involved in a few conflicts, in one of them I was shot 4 times and seen more than just 1 American die in battle, but, the U.S Media is so desensitized that they quickly report 1 U.S Soldier dying in Afghanistan, when hundreds a day died in Vietnam and other wars. The media in the U.S loves to scare Americans, as it was pointed out on the first page, this does not help us in any way but rather helps THEM in getting the 'big story'.

Also, people mentioned American's killing people in friendly fire, well guess what that's war, I've seen war and I've seen its horrors, friendly fire is just as much a part of war as killing the enemy is, and it will ALWAYS be that way unless humans rid themselves of human error, which will never happen. But, the opinions of the anti-American crowd no longer bother me, I've seen it time and time again, I've been spit on by people and had objects thrown at me just because I was an American soldier. My advice to other Americans is just to live your life and enjoy it, because quite frankly their is not a damn thing you can do to change this country or the opinions of the hardened anti-American crowd.

[Haplo]

A fellow soldier...

I'm with you Hammer. What ever happened to people who are actually willing to die for what they believe in? Everyone wants to talk about their rights, but when it comes time to defend them, nobody wants to do the deed. Well, I have. And I will again.

[VasikkA]

Remember, the enemy fights about their rights too. They think americans are as evil as you think some Al-Qaeda terrorists are. Humans should be respected whatever they believe in, and that makes warfare a rather stupid way to solve problems. Too bad it's sometimes the only way

[Haplo]

That's the thing though... I don't think either the americans or the taliban are right. I will fight for the survival of my family and friends, and myself. These people, *gestures with hand* think that it is justified to kill so that they can have things they're way. I don't care if it's done thier way or our way or anyones way. I just want to be able to live in peace with my family and friends, and that is MY right.

[Constipated BladeRunner]

What angers me the most are people who hated the United States before September 11th, but than right after they began to speak about how much they loved it. (Alec Baldwin comes to mind)

I was a patriot before September 11th, and I believe strongly in the constitution and my country, I joined the United States Army and was in it for 8 years, in those 8 years I was unfortunate enough to be involved in a few conflicts, in one of them I was shot 4 times and seen more than just 1 American die in battle, but, the U.S Media is so desensitized that they quickly report 1 U.S Soldier dying in Afghanistan, when hundreds a day died in Vietnam and other wars. The media in the U.S loves to scare Americans, as it was pointed out on the first page, this does not help us in any way but rather helps THEM in getting the 'big story'.

Also, people mentioned American's killing people in friendly fire, well guess what that's war, I've seen war and I've seen its horrors, friendly fire is just as much a part of war as killing the enemy is, and it will ALWAYS be that way unless humans rid themselves of human error, which will never happen. But, the opinions of the anti-American crowd no longer bother me, I've seen it time and time again, I've been spit on by people and had objects thrown at me just because I was an American soldier. My advice to other Americans is just to live your life and enjoy it, because quite frankly their is not a damn thing you can do to change this country or the opinions of the hardened anti-American crowd.

Wow.
Weve touched a former sensative spot.
Anyway, I dont hate America- its been good to me, and Socalisim wouldnt work here, not now anyway. You need to go into genetic modification more.

[VasikkA]

If you're in the army, no one asks about your personal opinion. You do what you've been commanded to do. There's no other way around it even if you disagree in what you're doing. I'd try to save my own arse too but when you're in combat you have no choice but to fight. At that point you forget the politics and focus on the enemy.

[Haplo]

In the military, you have no choice. Fight or be killed. That simple.
Things are much more complicated in the civilian world. There are some people who are willing to lay their lives down, without having to, to protect others. I truly respect such people. On both sides of the fight.

[Follower]

Hammer, no offense, I live in America for now and feel no hatred to Americans... Only to your blasted government - what a fuck they are doing? They are messing with businesses of all other world and think that it will be forgotten. Are they thinking that they are saviors of the world or what? I am talking not about war in Afganistan or Iran. This is another question - I am talkin about dozens of secret and half-secret operations all over the world... I am talking about their sick ambitions of world dominant. Does America have a right to dictate it's will to weaker countires... 11 sept could happen much soon, than now. Why do you think that other world don't like America. You think that we are jealous... Yes, I say "we" because I count myself to THEM too. You may think that I am jealous. I think that it is rightous indignation... It's a pity that America can hear only the explosions of it's buildings. Presidents are pushing America to war and than cry how terrible it was... I don't say that these terracts were good. This was BAD, but what else such countries as Iran left. Who cares about them, until they began to explode fanatics. Than people cry - nuck these fuckers. Who need them..? Nobody need until some freaks capture the airplane..! If you are interested, I am from Russia and several building were expoded there too. I think the same stuff about Putin and his freaks... of course if you think that war in Chechna is the same stuff as war in Afganistan. It looks like that most of my american friends are disagree with it...

[Bulldog]

THese are the continuous mechinations of our world- nothing new and nothiong that we are not sub-consciously aware of. A US soldier killied on the other hand is not something that happens every day, and I did not see any front pages for that matter

Are you kidding? I hope so. I can't imagine that a soldier getting killed is a shocking concept to anybody.

It is so disturbing to think that the only reason 1 person dying is more important that 3000 is that the one is American.

[Constipated BladeRunner]

Hammer, no offense, I live in America for now and feel no hatred to Americans... Only to your blasted government - what a fuck they are doing? They are messing with businesses of all other world and think that it will be forgotten. Are they thinking that they are saviors of the world or what? I am talking not about war in Afganistan or Iran. This is another question - I am talkin about dozens of secret and half-secret operations all over the world... I am talking about their sick ambitions of world dominant. Does America have a right to dictate it's will to weaker countires... 11 sept could happen much soon, than now. Why do you think that other world don't like America. You think that we are jealous... Yes, I say "we" because I count myself to THEM too. You may think that I am jealous. I think that it is rightous indignation... It's a pity that America can hear only the explosions of it's buildings. Presidents are pushing America to war and than cry how terrible it was... I don't say that these terracts were good. This was BAD, but what else such countries as Iran left. Who cares about them, until they began to explode fanatics. Than people cry - nuck these fuckers. Who need them..? Nobody need until some freaks capture the airplane..! If you are interested, I am from Russia and several building were expoded there too. I think the same stuff about Putin and his freaks... of course if you think that war in Chechna is the same stuff as war in Afganistan. It looks like that most of my american friends are disagree with it...

The only competotor for the US economy is that of Europe, with equal economies of 8 trillion dollars. And Europe has ALOT more problems- under population in the former Soviet Union, for instance.

[Follower]

Europe has more problems, you say. What are they, I wonder? America is runing war; this is draining it like an apple. Do you know how large debt of America is. It will need 3 years to pay it. How much money they are spending on their precious anti-missle progect. How long this war will long - this will push America in deep ass. I wonder about what are thinking genious of american government. You say that Europe is equal to America. It can easily use this war to gain strength. In the past they were friends, but what will happen now? As a new competition America is looking at China... but looking at Europe too. Have you heard about that stuff, that american soldiers can't be judged by european laws... Of course, this is a small step... but this is a step to another cold war... as usual... Why am I trying to push dialogue in serious topic? I hate it, I hate to talk about it, I hate to think about it... This life makes me sick, when I watch after it...

I don't know - may be problems in Europe are draining it too, but I heard nothing about it. Drugs, criminals, immigrants, fasists... all that stuff is old. Tell me about it, if you want. I always look for a fresh source of information. I am serious...

[the guardian]

Rumors vs. the facts of the russian holocaust of stalin. Heh, trickey trickey.
Also, Iam not a capatilast- Iam a solcalist, thank you very much

acully, my grandmother was in a "camp" at russia... it was much less extreme then the germeny stuff

btw CB, im also a socialist, but it'll never work, greedy humans you see :roll: more reasons to kill most of you




while on the subject of america loving and such: i dont like america as it is right now... fat, matirialistic, bitchie(fuck you got some retarded lawsuits), its not the america i once learned about in history class(though not extremly specific). i also find alot of americans being arrogant... your thoughts(and im using personal experiance, and this is not about board members, but on people from america when i visited america) on me coming from israel is either anger or feeling sorry for me, either pisses me off. its either hate because of what you've heard(from pro arab media, cnn), or feeling sorry for me because i live in a poor country(total bullshit)

also, follower, understand: america is huge, realy huge, and has tons of weapons, therefor, it can dictate whatever she wants to anyone if she wanted to(israel for instance :roll: ) because she's a fat bitch, and she got power. only if, say, europe unite, could anyone tell america to shut the fuck up

[Constipated BladeRunner]

Europe has more problems, you say. What are they, I wonder? America is runing war; this is draining it like an apple. Do you know how large debt of America is. It will need 3 years to pay it. How much money they are spending on their precious anti-missle progect. How long this war will long - this will push America in deep ass. I wonder about what are thinking genious of american government. You say that Europe is equal to America. It can easily use this war to gain strength. In the past they were friends, but what will happen now? As a new competition America is looking at China... but looking at Europe too. Have you heard about that stuff, that american soldiers can't be judged by european laws... Of course, this is a small step... but this is a step to another cold war... as usual... Why am I trying to push dialogue in serious topic? I hate it, I hate to talk about it, I hate to think about it... This life makes me sick, when I watch after it...

I don't know - may be problems in Europe are draining it too, but I heard nothing about it. Drugs, criminals, immigrants, fasists... all that stuff is old. Tell me about it, if you want. I always look for a fresh source of information. I am serious...

MILITARY SPENDING-
254 billion- spread out and amazingly advanced
173 Million- Almost all on ground forces, which is idiotic.
Realations are at an all time high with China- let alone the fact that if china for a SECOND thought of not trading with us, all sanitary factories would be shut down and about 40% of the population would loose its job. Also, no one needs to worry about china- after this generation the population will drop to about 300 million
Europe has a massivley dropping middle class/ upper class population, not to mention a massivley rising Arab minority that is already causing trouble in Jewish communities, NOT TO MENTION THE RISE OF FASCISIM!
Also, Europe just dosnt have the work ethic of the U.S- We work harder and longer than any other country in the world, you see-
Human nature is a matter of conditioning. You condition a person right, and anything is possible- not to mention the rise of genetic manipulation we are going to see in the next few years. All philosiphers had to create a super human for a utopia to exsist- and we as a species are so close we can taste it!

[the guardian]

Europe has a massivley dropping middle class/ upper class population, not to mention a massivley rising Arab minority that is already causing trouble in Jewish communities, NOT TO MENTION THE RISE OF FASCISIM!

kinda funny saying for a country that allows nazis so long as they dont acully burn jews and black in public... im all for freedom of speech, but there should be a line somewhere, europe did it i believe

Also, Europe just dosnt have the work ethic of the U.S- We work harder and longer than any other country in the world, you see-
Human nature is a matter of conditioning. You condition a person right, and anything is possible- not to mention the rise of genetic manipulation we are going to see in the next few years. All philosiphers had to create a super human for a utopia to exsist- and we as a species are so close we can taste it!

are you kidding me? americans are 60% obese, is that the super human we're after? fat asses with the tendancy to think they're the best for having a good economical state? the super human idea is not that, heh, not even close...

as for the "work harder and longer" comment... im not ruling that out, i havent checked, but at what job? middle class works are much easier then lower class works

[Haplo]

Guardian, you'll always have a place to rest at my house.

Americans are lazy. Obese. Materialistic. Short-sighted.

But some are not. Every country has it's sterotypes attached, the U.S.A. is no exception. Remember that, all of you. Don't judge, by your own sterotypes, people that you don't know.

And CBR, you're starting to sound Fascist yourself, with the talk of a perfect species.

Relax, all of you. Keep it as a friendly arguement.

[the guardian]

thats great haplo, since you're planning on moving to the wilderness, i'll have the entire place to myself!

i'll try to relax, but he makes it sound as if americans are better because they're fat and have a diffrent calture, how does that make them a better human? i hate arrogancy

[Haplo]

Feel free. Just don't mess with my weapons.

You guys need to stop trying to prove superiority, and work out something so that you won't be at each others throats all the time.

A forum is a place to meet friends, to have conversations. Not to make enemies out of each other.

And Guardian, I know how you feel. But you can't let other people's opinions get to you. You know you're own worth, have faith in that.

[Hammer]

i'll try to relax, but he makes it sound as if americans are better because they're fat and have a diffrent calture, how does that make them a better human? i hate arrogancy

And I hate big nosed Jews with chopped peckers that run around killing Palestinian Children for no reason, you blood drinking bastards!

[Haplo]

i'll try to relax, but he makes it sound as if americans are better because they're fat and have a diffrent calture, how does that make them a better human? i hate arrogancy

And I hate big nosed Jews with chopped peckers that run around killing Palestinian Children for no reason, you blood drinking bastards!

Hammer, this is not the place for such racist and bigoted statements! Detract that now!
I swear, you people are really starting to piss me off

[FireWolf]

and you failed to see the irony in Hammer's reply. essentially he is pulling on the idea of stereotyping. for example you could say all english people are tea drinkers.

or all welsh are sheep shaggers. all russians are commies, all americans are fat.

yes, Hammer isnt the most subtle of people. He could have approached it differently. but he made his point in the best way he felt.

Personally i try not to hold predjudices, but i do know i harbour some. if you deny that you don't then more fool you.