WAR WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR?

[Wolfman Walt]

but they are a damn sight better than the yanks, who pointlessly invade other countries to get their natural resources....but by securing all that oil...

Then it wasn't pointless, genius.

[PiP]

Russia did not go in to fuck georgia up, they went in to stop georgia from fucking up their new neighbour.

you seriously believe that? Noble Putin had no choice but to defend poor Ossetians and accidently got carried away? You can't possibly be that naive.

I actually think the most important reason for fucking Georgia up was not just to increase the level of control over this strategic region, not grabbing the opportunity to punish Georgia for answering back, but to probe Europe: check how unified and solid Europe is and how much it will allow.

Apparently Angela Merkel understood that and the consequences.

[S4ur0n27]

yeah of course it's all part of a greater, evil scheme; mother russia wants to invade all of the world

continue being that gullible

[ApTyp]

sadf

[rabidpeanut]

but they are a damn sight better than the yanks, who pointlessly invade other countries to get their natural resources....but by securing all that oil...

Then it wasn't pointless, genius.

yeah, sorry didn't proof read i guess.

And russia has pulled out, russia has enough fucking land, why the hell would they need to take any more?

[kioshiro]

Ossetia won independence from Georgia after civil war. Ossetia wants to be part of Russian Federation to keep Georgia out. Georgian government troops invaded Ossetia. Federation troops pound them back, and start bombing Georgian territory. Why? Because by attacking Ossetia, Georgia was attacking Russian Federation.

what the fuck are you talking about. First off, there are two parts of Ossetia - northern and southern. Northern Ossetia is a part of Russia now, and the present conflict has nothing to do with it.
Southern Ossetia is a part of Georgia and a different kettle of fish.
They declared independence but nobody has recognized this except for themselves (and now apparently Russia). Recently more than before they wanted either independence or to be joined to Russia. So Georgian forces were moved to the rebelling province to explain that they're dong a bad thing, you see. Russia grabbed the opportunity to fuck up Georgia whom they don't like and possible acquire a small extra bit of territory (that is the Southern Ossetia). So Georgia did not attack Russia, but it's own separatist region and Russia helped the rebels as they will always fight for freedom

I reckon Georgian leaders should know better and let the Southern Ossetia separate or do whatever they want rather than risk a conflict with Russia that was just waiting for an excuse. Perhaps they thought Russia wouldn't start a war when olympics start to avoid bad rap in the press in this special period. Guess they were wrong

in which foxnews have you got lost in? south osetia has decided to join russia and georgia blew up the only city of it, the capital, to ground level. which rebeling state? which what? wtf are you talking about?

south osetia was a free republic all along. when it became russian soil, its natural for russia to defend any attacks. in fact russia is very soft considering they were attacked by a country that has such a small military force.

what georgian leaders? theres only 1 leader in georgia and he has serious personal issues. thats the whole reason of this war. now he cries woo america woo un protect me even when georgia isnt in un.

[Mismatch]

in which foxnews have you got lost in? south osetia has decided to join russia and georgia blew up the only city of it, the capital, to ground level. which rebeling state? which what? wtf are you talking about?

south osetia was a free republic all along. when it became russian soil, its natural for russia to defend any attacks. in fact russia is very soft considering they were attacked by a country that has such a small military force.

what georgian leaders? theres only 1 leader in georgia and he has serious personal issues. thats the whole reason of this war. now he cries woo america woo un protect me even when georgia isnt in un.

Oh, it's THAT simple.... yeah right. Do crawl back to whatever communist dictatorship you emerged from.

The Economist has an excellent <a href="http://www.economist.com/printedition/d ... 2">article on the subject.</a>

The rattling of sabres has been heard in both capitals for months, if not years. Russia imposed sanctions on Georgia and rounded up Georgians in Moscow. In revenge for the recognition of Kosovo’s independence earlier this year, Mr Putin established legal ties with the governments of South Ossetia and Abkhazia. When Mr Saakashvili called Mr Putin to complain and point out that the West supported Georgian integrity, Mr Putin, who favours earthy language, is said to have told him to stick Western statements up his backside.

In the late spring, Russia and Georgia came close to a clash over Abkhazia but diplomats pulled the two sides apart. A war in Georgia became a favourite subject in Moscow’s rumour mill. There were bomb explosions in Abkhazia and the nearby Russian town of Sochi, the venue of the 2014 Winter Olympics.

Suddenly, the action switched to South Ossetia, a much smaller rebellious region divided from Russia by the Caucasus mountains. In early July Russia staged a massive military exercise on the border with South Ossetia. At the same time Russian jets flew over the region “to establish the situation� and “cool down Georgia’s hot-heads�, according to the Russians.

The change of scene should not, in retrospect, be surprising. Unlike Abkhazia, which is separated from the rest of Georgia by a buffer zone, South Ossetia is a tiny patchwork of villages—Georgian and South Ossetian—which was much easier to drag into a war. It is headed by a thuggish former Soviet official, Eduard Kokoity, and run by the Russian security services. It lives off smuggling and Russian money. As Yulia Latynina, a Russian journalist, puts it, “South Ossetia is a joint venture between KGB generals and an Ossetian gangster, who jointly utilise the money disbursed by Moscow for fighting with Georgia.�

In early August Georgian and South Ossetian separatists exchanged fire and explosive attacks. South Ossetia blew up a truck carrying Georgian policemen and attacked Georgian villages; Georgia fired back at the capital of South Ossetia, Tskhinvali. On August 7th Georgian and South Ossetian officials were due to have direct talks facilitated by a Russian diplomat. But according to Temur Iakobashvili, a Georgian minister, the Russian diplomat never turned up.

What happened next is less clear. Russia claims that Mr Saakashvili treacherously broke a unilateral ceasefire he had just announced, ordering a massive offensive on Tskhinvali, ethnically cleansing South Ossetian villages and killing as many as 2,000 people. According to the Georgians, the ceasefire was broken from the South Ossetian side. However, what triggered the Georgian response, says Mr Saakashvili, was the movement of Russian troops through the Roki tunnel that connects South Ossetia to Russia. Matthew Bryza, an official at the State Department, says he was woken at 2am on August 7th to be told that the Georgians were lifting the ceasefire. “I tried to persuade them not to do it,� he says.

That same night, Georgia started to shell and invade Tskhinvali. Then the Russian army moved in—the same troops that had taken part in the military exercise a month earlier. The picture Russia presented to the world seemed clear: Georgia was a reckless and dangerous aggressor and Russia had an obligation, as a peacekeeper in the region, to protect the victims.

Russia’s response was predictable. One thing which almost all observers agree on is that Mr Saakashvili made a catastrophic mistake by walking into the Russian trap. As Carl Bildt, Sweden’s foreign minister, puts it: “When you have a choice between doing nothing and doing a stupid thing, it is better to do nothing.� But Mr Saakashvili, a compulsive risk-taker, did the second. Even now he is defiant: if the clock were turned back, he says his response would be the same. “Any Georgian government that would have done differently would have fallen immediately,� he says.

Mr Saakashvili bears responsibility for mismanaging disputes between Georgia and the enclaves, pushing them firmly into Russian hands. Yet his mistakes and follies notwithstanding, Russia’s claim that it was “enforcing peace� is preposterous. Despite the terrible atrocities which both South Ossetia and Abkhazia suffered in the early 1990s from the brutal and nationalist government of the Georgian president, Zviad Gamsakhurdia, South Ossetians got on with the Georgians much better than the Abkhaz did. They traded heavily in a smugglers’ market (which Mr Saakashvili shut down in 2004) and lived alongside each other peaceably.

“Georgians always helped me and I don’t feel any pressure now,� says a South Ossetian woman who got trapped in Gori after the Russian attack. This is not a comment frequently heard in Abkhazia. Mr Saakashvili’s nationalistic approach to separatist conflicts certainly did not help, but had it not been for Russia supporting South Ossetia’s corrupt regime, the two sides would not have gone to war. And instead of containing the conflict Russia deliberately spread it to Abkhazia.

[PiP]

yeah of course it's all part of a greater, evil scheme; mother russia wants to invade all of the world

continue being that gullible

Susan, it's not some romantic "mother Russia", it'd Putin and a few guys like him. Think of Putin's background. Remember that Russian army used to be stationed as far west as mid-Germany. Their orders, if anything goes warlike, were to reach the Atlantic asap. It's not so long ago, especially for guys the age of Putin. I'm not saying Putin is going to bomb Berlin. I think however that he would like to dominate the whole Europe through economy and political means using the position Russia now has with energy/fuel market. If Eurpoe does not stand solid against things like the Georgia conflict, next thing he can try could be a coup in Ukraine and establishing a puppet president in place of Juszczenko (Yushchenko or whatever you spell it in English). Putin's will to dominate at leats smaller countries around him is quite real. If Georgia doesn't wake you up then who's gullible.
And guys stop writing that Russia is pulling out of Georgia, you wouldn't expect Georgia would be just taken over, period. Actually I'm surprised Putin stayed in Georiga that long, this shows that he feels he can afford more cheekiness and display of power than I thought initially, I had thought he would only briefly attack - like one day - until some peace plan is made.

[St. Toxic]

So what if Russia starts pushing eastern countries back into Soviet Mach 2? That's just correcting the past mistake of letting them go.

[kioshiro]

in which foxnews have you got lost in? south osetia has decided to join russia and georgia blew up the only city of it, the capital, to ground level. which rebeling state? which what? wtf are you talking about?

south osetia was a free republic all along. when it became russian soil, its natural for russia to defend any attacks. in fact russia is very soft considering they were attacked by a country that has such a small military force.

what georgian leaders? theres only 1 leader in georgia and he has serious personal issues. thats the whole reason of this war. now he cries woo america woo un protect me even when georgia isnt in un.

Oh, it's THAT simple.... yeah right. Do crawl back to whatever communist dictatorship you emerged from.

The Economist has an excellent <a href="http://www.economist.com/printedition/d ... 2">article on the subject.</a>

The rattling of sabres has been heard in both capitals for months, if not years. Russia imposed sanctions on Georgia and rounded up Georgians in Moscow. In revenge for the recognition of Kosovo’s independence earlier this year, Mr Putin established legal ties with the governments of South Ossetia and Abkhazia. When Mr Saakashvili called Mr Putin to complain and point out that the West supported Georgian integrity, Mr Putin, who favours earthy language, is said to have told him to stick Western statements up his backside.

In the late spring, Russia and Georgia came close to a clash over Abkhazia but diplomats pulled the two sides apart. A war in Georgia became a favourite subject in Moscow’s rumour mill. There were bomb explosions in Abkhazia and the nearby Russian town of Sochi, the venue of the 2014 Winter Olympics.

Suddenly, the action switched to South Ossetia, a much smaller rebellious region divided from Russia by the Caucasus mountains. In early July Russia staged a massive military exercise on the border with South Ossetia. At the same time Russian jets flew over the region “to establish the situation� and “cool down Georgia’s hot-heads�, according to the Russians.

The change of scene should not, in retrospect, be surprising. Unlike Abkhazia, which is separated from the rest of Georgia by a buffer zone, South Ossetia is a tiny patchwork of villages—Georgian and South Ossetian—which was much easier to drag into a war. It is headed by a thuggish former Soviet official, Eduard Kokoity, and run by the Russian security services. It lives off smuggling and Russian money. As Yulia Latynina, a Russian journalist, puts it, “South Ossetia is a joint venture between KGB generals and an Ossetian gangster, who jointly utilise the money disbursed by Moscow for fighting with Georgia.�

In early August Georgian and South Ossetian separatists exchanged fire and explosive attacks. South Ossetia blew up a truck carrying Georgian policemen and attacked Georgian villages; Georgia fired back at the capital of South Ossetia, Tskhinvali. On August 7th Georgian and South Ossetian officials were due to have direct talks facilitated by a Russian diplomat. But according to Temur Iakobashvili, a Georgian minister, the Russian diplomat never turned up.

What happened next is less clear. Russia claims that Mr Saakashvili treacherously broke a unilateral ceasefire he had just announced, ordering a massive offensive on Tskhinvali, ethnically cleansing South Ossetian villages and killing as many as 2,000 people. According to the Georgians, the ceasefire was broken from the South Ossetian side. However, what triggered the Georgian response, says Mr Saakashvili, was the movement of Russian troops through the Roki tunnel that connects South Ossetia to Russia. Matthew Bryza, an official at the State Department, says he was woken at 2am on August 7th to be told that the Georgians were lifting the ceasefire. “I tried to persuade them not to do it,� he says.

That same night, Georgia started to shell and invade Tskhinvali. Then the Russian army moved in—the same troops that had taken part in the military exercise a month earlier. The picture Russia presented to the world seemed clear: Georgia was a reckless and dangerous aggressor and Russia had an obligation, as a peacekeeper in the region, to protect the victims.

Russia’s response was predictable. One thing which almost all observers agree on is that Mr Saakashvili made a catastrophic mistake by walking into the Russian trap. As Carl Bildt, Sweden’s foreign minister, puts it: “When you have a choice between doing nothing and doing a stupid thing, it is better to do nothing.� But Mr Saakashvili, a compulsive risk-taker, did the second. Even now he is defiant: if the clock were turned back, he says his response would be the same. “Any Georgian government that would have done differently would have fallen immediately,� he says.

Mr Saakashvili bears responsibility for mismanaging disputes between Georgia and the enclaves, pushing them firmly into Russian hands. Yet his mistakes and follies notwithstanding, Russia’s claim that it was “enforcing peace� is preposterous. Despite the terrible atrocities which both South Ossetia and Abkhazia suffered in the early 1990s from the brutal and nationalist government of the Georgian president, Zviad Gamsakhurdia, South Ossetians got on with the Georgians much better than the Abkhaz did. They traded heavily in a smugglers’ market (which Mr Saakashvili shut down in 2004) and lived alongside each other peaceably.

“Georgians always helped me and I don’t feel any pressure now,� says a South Ossetian woman who got trapped in Gori after the Russian attack. This is not a comment frequently heard in Abkhazia. Mr Saakashvili’s nationalistic approach to separatist conflicts certainly did not help, but had it not been for Russia supporting South Ossetia’s corrupt regime, the two sides would not have gone to war. And instead of containing the conflict Russia deliberately spread it to Abkhazia.

who said its simple?
i wont return you the insult back couse youre already crawling in your brainwashed media twisting country

[Mismatch]

i wont return you the insult back couse youre already crawling in your brainwashed media twisting country

And yet you try, and fail miserably when attempting to insult me by insulting my country when *newsflash* you have no idea whatsoever from which country I hail.

Still I find your inadequacy rather amusing.

[St. Toxic]

Now your insinuating that kioshiro doesn't know what country you're from. What if, he does, eh? What happens to your debunk then, ol' buddy? Apparently this is a dangerous game. We should get Matrix in here, or Cleck.

[kioshiro]

...
its obvious youre from a capitalist shit since you use imitate cliches like "communist dictatorship".. media brainwash is a must in all capitalist countries.

acting badass cool over internet will not make you more informative or knoweladged.. but maybe you should try to learn to talk with people from other sides of the world to get a better idea of news and other variable information types

[Redeye]

...

kioshiro?

If my guess about your name origin is correct, it maps to arguments about media coverage.

Having CNN and Fox right next to each other on the cable system allows for a game of chioroscuro using the remote control.

/pedantry


@thread:

Would be funny if US ships weapons to Georgia, then uses the empty shipping containers for emergency housing for refugees.

Better to ship common sense, but we don't have any.

[St. Toxic]

http://www.navoine.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?p=551

Looks like there was fun to be had by all.

EDIT: Also, now that I've actually browsed through the whole thread, I've noticed there has been little to no mention of Georgia being the platform for a pipeline, established by the USA, for transporting oil and natural gas pumped out of the Caspian sea, effectively bypassing Russia. Seeing as Russian corporations currently cover 1/4 of the total European market when it comes to natural gas, the pipeline had the potential of seriously disrupting the economic power of Russia, not to mention the safety of Russia in the situation that Nato would no longer have to rely, even partially, on russian oil and natural gas. The pipeline business has been in the works since the Clinton era, and the area just below South Ossetia has since then been a military interest for the Russian federation.

I assumed you guys had this covered somewhere on page 1 or 2, because it is a far more likely motive for war than "protecting freedom fighters" or "probing Europe for reactions".

EDIT 2: Also, they BOMBED those pipelines to SHIT apparently, so I guess Mission: Successful. I'm guessing this was all a dick-waving contest, which Russia won because their dick was, and always will remain, on the border of Georgia, keeping those pesky flies off of Russian sugar.

[Mismatch]

its obvious youre from a capitalist shit since you use imitate cliches like "communist dictatorship".. media brainwash is a must in all capitalist countries.

Since there is no, and has never ever been, another form of communist government than dictatorship I would hardly call it cliché, but rather realité.

acting badass cool over internet will not make you more informative or knoweladged.. but maybe you should try to learn to talk with people from other sides of the world to get a better idea of news and other variable information types

Yeah I tried that once, while I was on my annual imperialistic sejour in some backwater country. So I approached this middle aged gentleman and tried to engage him in conversation:

I: "Well hello there good sir, may bother you for a minute?"

middle aged gentleman: "Glyggglyggsplott knishmunk gesplyff"

I: "Well I say, that was entirely uncalled for!"

middle aged gentleman: "Glaargesplaaarg, hnuff hnuff"

I: "I will have no more of this! I am leaving."

So after a while I felt a tad guilty, thinking that maybe he was a retard or something, and that I should have been a little bit more polite. But as it turns out, he was just from some third world country and rather incapable of expressing himself even in his native language. And yet he often ventured out on 'the internets' and had heated arguments with foreigners whom he loathed because of their imperialist lifestyle.


edit: toxic, 'tis not wroking

[St. Toxic]

Have faith, my son. One day you will know what "Glyggglyggsplott knishmunk gesplyff" really means. One day.

[Mismatch]

[PiP]

...
its obvious youre from a capitalist shit since you use imitate cliches like "communist dictatorship".. media brainwash is a must in all capitalist countries.

acting badass cool over internet will not make you more informative or knoweladged.. but maybe you should try to learn to talk with people from other sides of the world to get a better idea of news and other variable information types

I've lived both in communist and capitalist countries and brainwashing in the communist ones is incomparably worse. The worst thing about it is that it's homogenous and centrally controlled. If you have any manipulation in the free countries, there will always be somebody to point that out. Look how much criticism Bush administration received for manipulations with "reasons to attack Irak". How often does Putin get criticised in Russia? Oh, right, there was this lassie Politkovskaya, who tried
Oh and by the way, you mentioned that S. Ossetia was long a free republic - yeah, you forgot to notice that it was only recognized by Ossetia itself. From the perspective of other countries it was just a region of Georgia. And hell yeah I think in normal circumstances Georgia should just let them go - become independent or Join Russia, whichever they prefer. Hostile situation with Russia was growing however, so I reckon Sakashvili figured he can facilitate the process and start shit during the Olympics, so everyone in the world talks about the conflict and maybe Georgia gets an invite to the NATO club. It's quite interesting that during the georgian conflict the only country to support Russia was Cuba. Even Belarus who usually acts as Russia's dog on a rope, didn't give support this time. I'm wondering what they're in for for this
Anyhow if you happen to be living in Russia it's highly improbable you'll believe what I'm saying, so I don't expect you to. Or if you're just an angry putofil.

[St. Toxic]

Hey Pip, why don't you shut your commie mouth and read this for a change?

http://www.rense.com/general83/inttt.htm

I mean, it's so obvious really. I cannot believe how blind peope are to the truth.