Europe is it scared??

ekkaman · Post by **ekkaman** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:18 am

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8385069.stm

The french ban the burqa now this i understand their thinking but can you really just ban the peeps shit and hope it will all go away im thinking no it will make them want to fuck with your shit more so what say you good people?

Post by **King of Creation** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:43 am

It's not really a race issue...it's a religious one.

Redeye · Post by **Redeye** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:41 am

Libtards use symbolism as a substitute for reality.

Architectural style, clothing, etc.

Otherwise they would have to weapon up.

It's a convenient self-delusion.

Just "vote" reality to be different through social posturing rituals.

Post by **King of Creation** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:02 am

Redeye wrote:Libtards use symbolism as a substitute for reality.

Architectural style, clothing, etc.

Otherwise they would have to weapon up.

It's a convenient self-delusion.

Just "vote" reality to be different through social posturing rituals.

4too?

Blargh · Post by **Blargh** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:53 am

Reality by consensus ? Ha ha ha.

Smiley · Post by **Smiley** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:08 am

There've been suggestions here as well, to ban religious/cultural covering clothes, such as burkas and any cloth meant to conceal hair.

It's a strange proposal, because while it makes sense in some places, there's really no point in making a general law about it.

The somewhat valid concerns, in my opinion, is when someone is wearing a hijab at certain work places.
I think Denmark had its first female "muslim" judge not long ago. It somewhat scares the shit out of me that someone who has so strong a religious background or dependancy on a religious object, so out of touch with and very unpopular in my country, is capable of sentencing someone in a Danish court of law. I don't think that's impartial and I don't think it's proper for a representative of the community/society to wear any religious symbols or traditional dress, no matter how objectional anyone says they are.
If it doesn't mean anything, then don't wear it on official business.

In most other cases, it's fine, I don't mind/care if my busdriver, lawyer, dentist or clerk at the supermarket is wearing anything religious.

There've been a few excuses, such as doing it for the sake of women, since it's believed to be a symbol of oppression, but forcing someone not to wear something is just another form of opression.

Then there's the debate that if someone wants to come here, they should fit in and integrate. Or that they should have the freedom to be who they are, no matter where they are.

I think that when you visit or move to somewhere, you show the proper respect and behave like the rest of society expects you to, within a few parameters at least. Be aware of what's insulting, what proper conduct is, proper clothing and so on. I also think that you have the right not to bother, but then you don't really have any right to complain when others shun or distrust you.

Redeye wrote:Libtards use symbolism as a substitute for reality.

I doubt anyone wearing a burka is doing it for fashion or because they feel like it. If there's not some sort of pressure or religious reason, you'd have to be crazy to wear something so impractical.

SenisterDenister · Post by **SenisterDenister** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:52 pm

Pretty xenophobic of you, Smiley. I don't give a fuck, removing their choice to wear one is infringing upon their rights of religion and self expression. Really, just let them wear their damn towels.

Smiley · Post by **Smiley** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:33 pm

How is it xenophobic, when I don't refer to heritage in any way?

In general, I don't mind any difference, other than maybe really primitive societies such as tribes or extremely rural middle eastern/african villages, because of a lack of basic civility.

But isn't it fair that I don't want any influence, religious or otherwise, in our system of justice?
I've already stated I think people should be able to wear whatever they'd like. I also accept the fact that it might be a symbol of other things, but it still has no place in a court of law.
I mean, by the same logic we could have a nazi judge, proudly displaying a swastika on his arm. It's just a symbol, right?
And yes, I'd mind a cross as well.

If you wanted to pin a tag on me, I'd be theophobic, but then again I don't have a fear of religion, other than a healthy respect for what it is and that I can plainly see how powerful it is to some people.

People are so quick to pin tags like racist on one another. They get so touchy talking about anything different about people. Usually the same don't mind judging someone who's different in other ways, such as sexuality or a handicap.

VasikkA · Post by **VasikkA** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 4:02 pm

Discrimination is human.

Blargh · Post by **Blargh** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:40 pm

Nuclear waste is human. Ah ha ha.

Kashluk · Post by **Kashluk** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:08 pm

The Swiss have just banned the building of minarets. They banned the prayer calls on top of minarets quite some time ago. There is a whopping total of four (4) minarets in the entire country. For comparison: there are 150 mosques in Switzerland.

Redeye · Post by **Redeye** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:11 am

Smiley wrote:
Redeye wrote:Libtards use symbolism as a substitute for reality.
I doubt anyone wearing a burka is doing it for fashion or because they feel like it. If there's not some sort of pressure or religious reason, you'd have to be crazy to wear something so impractical.

I meant to try to control a thing by controlling the associated symbol.
I'm not saying it doesn't work, I'm concerned that cosmetic displays can distract from reality.

I mean this from the standpoint of the ban-enacters.

On the other side, there is certainly pressure and religiosity.
It is not just about domination/submission and discriminatory role assignment.
It's also about identity.
Yes, they are intertwined/overlapping.

Copenhagen Syndrome considerations aside, some people wear that stuff as psychic armor.

It is counterproductive to dictate dress. Dictates interfere and intrude, triggering ressistance.
The influence of social pressure from outside of ethnic bubbles working over time is less confrontational.
We'll get the kids.

SenisterDenister · Post by **SenisterDenister** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 1:52 am

Anything that infringes upon individual liberties is a no-go in my book.

Smiley · Post by **Smiley** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:09 am

I recognize that there are different reasons for wearing hajibs and burkas.
It's a thing I've been thinking about since I wrote my first post, and like you just pointed out, the attire might be in their interest in protecting themselves.

I don't think a full ban would be appropriate or do any good. I've found out that the proposal was turned down, with a heavy majority.
The original proposal was made by a Syrian refugee who has made a political career for himself, growing up in Denmark.

I do, however, think that some workplaces should enforce dresscode or uniforms, excluding any and all non-relevant attire and symbols, such as the police, at least on official or public business.

Regarding Minarets.. do they have any sort of noise, like bells or loudspeakers?
The wiki states that those are placed in the mosques.
Anyway, if there's noise comming from them five times a day, it's no wonder people want them banned. Then they go from a symbol to public nuisance.

Anything that infringes upon individual liberties is a no-go in my book.

Anarchy? Where would you set the limit?

Post by **Dogmeatlives** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:14 am

I look at it this way- If Muslims ruled the world how fucking badly would they infringe on my rights?

Answer: Very badly.

Good for France. More countries need to take a sensical stand like this. Religion is definitely a phase of our mental evolution imo and its a phase we really, really need to leave behind.

ekkaman · Post by **ekkaman** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:35 am

Lake of civility um you looked around latly at the world cause i think its not just them you speak of that have a monopoly on lacking basic civility name one civilized country on this planet any that you do would only be from the way you see it other people think porn cinimas, bars and brothels are a sign of being very uncivilised i dont agree with them i love my porn and beer just saying its like using the word normal to describe your self im normal i jack of 5 times a day to porn and still blow on the wifes back at night i think thats normal what say you?

jetbaby · Post by **jetbaby** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:48 am

VasikkA wrote:Discrimination is human.

Kashluk · Post by **Kashluk** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:58 am

Dogmeatlives wrote:I look at it this way- If Muslims ruled the world how fucking badly would they infringe on my rights?

Answer: Very badly.

Then perhaps we should look at it this way - if the Nazis/Communists/Vatican ruled the world, how fuckind badly would they infringe on my rights? If you argument like this, you can justify the oppression of any group or ideology.

Dogmeatlives wrote:Good for France. More countries need to take a sensical stand like this. Religion is definitely a phase of our mental evolution imo and its a phase we really, really need to leave behind.

France has 'double-standards': they hit strict limitations for Muslims, but Catholic priests and monks can walk around in public schools wearing their religious sign of subservience.

Smiley wrote:I doubt anyone wearing a burka is doing it for fashion or because they feel like it. If there's not some sort of pressure or religious reason, you'd have to be crazy to wear something so impractical.

VasikkA · Post by **VasikkA** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:21 am

ekkaman wrote:Lake of civility um you looked around latly at the world cause i think its not just them you speak of that have a monopoly on lacking basic civility name one civilized country on this planet any that you do would only be from the way you see it other people think porn cinimas, bars and brothels are a sign of being very uncivilised i dont agree with them i love my porn and beer just saying its like using the word normal to describe your self im normal i jack of 5 times a day to porn and still blow on the wifes back at night i think thats normal what say you?

Good point.

PiP · Post by **PiP** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:34 pm

King of Creation wrote:It's not really a race issue...it's a religious one.

I'd say cultural, religion being prominent exponent.

Blargh wrote:Reality by consensus ? Ha ha ha.

essentially. Or stick to you own.

Duck and Cover

Europe is it scared??

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Europe is it scared??