Damage Threshold returning in New Vegas

[King of Creation]

<strong>[ Game -> Update ]</strong> - More info on <a href="http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Josh Sawyer">Person: Josh Sawyer</a> | More info on <a href="http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Obsidian Entertainment">Company: Obsidian Entertainment</a> | More info on <a href="http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout: New Vegas">Game: Fallout: New Vegas</a>

<p>Josh Saywer has revealed that the Damage Threshold mechanic from Fallout 1 and 2 will be making a return in Fallout: New Vegas. Here's what he had to say at <a href="http://forums.obsidian.net/index.php?s= ... 29025">the Obsidian Forums</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><em>Imagine that there is an amount of damage that armor directly subtracts from damage... a "threshold" of damage, if you will. While a small percentage of damage may get through even the thickest armor, damage threshold can effectively neutralize a lot of small arms. Fallout 1 and 2 used numerical feedback to let the player know when their weapons weren't doing any damage. In F3 and F:NV, the player only sees enemy health meters that represent a percentage of total health rather than an exact value. This makes it difficult to tell how effective an enemy's armor is (as opposed to the target simply having a ton of health). In F:NV, the red shield appears next to a target's health meter when you hit it for damage that is equal to or less than the target's damage threshold. A HUD-colored shield appears next to the player's health meter when the player is hit for damage equal to or less than the player's damage threshold.

High RoF weapons typically have a low DAM, high DPS. E.g. 10mm SMG. Low RoF weapons are the opposite. E.g. Hunting Rifle. F:NV's Pip-Boy Weapons tab now cross-fades between DAM and DPS so the player can make more tactical choices about what weapon to use in any given circumstance. Having both of these values visible has also allowed us to revise the calculation of DAM/DPS values to be less abstract and more accurate. Using the weapons previously listed, a 10mm SMG would be best against unarmored/lightly armored targets at close range. The Hunting Rifle is ideal against armored targets at long range. But if the player wants to get fiddly with numbers, the Cowboy Repeater (mentioned in the Escapist preview) is better than either weapon against unarmored/lightly armored targets at long range since it is accurate, has a decent DAM and a better DPS than the Hunting Rifle. Add ammo subtypes and mods into the mix and there are a lot of ways to optimize the gear you carry and use.</em></p>
</blockquote>
<p>He talked about the mechanic further at the <a href="http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/t ... ">Bethesda forums</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><em><strong>Is it a replacement for all armor or will it be alongside DR? </strong></em></p>
<p><em>We're still experimenting with the right balance of DR/DT. The engine can support and display both.</em></p>
<p><em>BTW, the weapons that are easily neutered by even light armor are shotguns firing buckshot.</em></p>
<p><em>Which is why I always carry slugs. :disguise:</em></p>
<p><em><strong>Does the red shield only appear during VATS?</strong></em></p>
<p><em>It appears whenever you damage a target and remains for a few seconds after.</em></p>
<p><em> There is a value in GECK we use for tuning that specifies a minimum percentage of damage an attack can do, regardless of DR/DT. We've adjusted it a few times and probably will continue to do so. But in all cases it has been a low percentage of an already low base value, so using something like a Varmint Rifle against high DT armor is a good way to get killed.</em></p>
</blockquote>
<p>Thanks for the tip <strong>Aonoran</strong> and <a href="http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog ... ir</a>.</p>

[Frater Perdurabo]

I reckon they need to overhaul all of the gun skill mechanics. As FO3 proved beyond doubt, having your accuracy determined by your weapon skill just did not work out (now that I'm thinking about it, it was fantastic in Deus Ex, how the FUCK did Bethesda manage to fuck it up so badly? Fucking morons).
Instead, I think it would make more sense if weapon skill determined the flat amount of damage that you did, as well as increase chance of criticals on top of luck. Only in VATS should weapon skill actually determine whether you hit the enemy or not, but not in the FPS that is FO3 and F:NV. If the game is an FPS (which it is), make a decent shooting mechanic. As I said before, Deus Ex was a way better shooter (and objectively, a way better RPG than FO3). Get your shit together.

[Aonaran]

It is amazing how much they are managing to unfuck, simply by reimplementing all the shit Bethsoft cut from the originals.

[TwinkieGorilla]

It is amazing how much they are managing to unfuck, simply by reimplementing all the shit Bethsoft cut from the originals.

yes, it is pretty incredible what actually trying will get you. that said...there's only so far you can get when your job is to polish a turd.

[SenisterDenister]

The game would still be better if they used an engine that was designed to use SPECIAL from the ground up, but there's nothing we can do about that.

[Manoil]

or started using the original art aesthetic. That'd be cute.

[Retlaw83]

As FO3 proved beyond doubt, having your accuracy determined by your weapon skill just did not work out

You're giving Bethsoft too much credit. All the guns in Fallout 3 were highly inaccurate and didn't get more accurate with skill - your damage simply got higher.

[Aonaran]

It is worth pointing out that Josh Sawyer also differentiated between weapon mods and ammo subtypes. Just sayin'...

[Siede]

As FO3 proved beyond doubt, having your accuracy determined by your weapon skill just did not work out

You're giving Bethsoft too much credit. All the guns in Fallout 3 were highly inaccurate and didn't get more accurate with skill - your damage simply got higher.

He's talking about the sway of scoped weapons.

[TwinkieGorilla]

He's talking about the sway of scoped weapons.

[Manoil]

No, all guns were inaccurate as fuck until you maxed their skill categories and had high CND. Play it again, see for yourself.

[Retlaw83]

Even with maxed skill and CND, all those guns were inaccurate as fuck. Some of them even had the inaccuracy hardcoded into them; the spread on the Chinese assault rifle is the same on the first three shots every time.