POLITICKAL!

[Yonmanc]

So I watched SICKO today by Michael Moore. Made me happy to be British considering I'm broke and usually end up in hospital once or twice a year as I'm prone to collapsing (stress related).

So ya, just wandering what any Americans on here think of the Healthcare reforms over there. I try to follow most major countries politics, but can't seem to wrap my head around America's healthcare shizzam at the moment. So, for, against, indifferent?

[TwinkieGorilla]

i got banned from NMA for getting involved in this very discussion. i'll pass.

[Taco-Hero]

I believe that people should be able to at least have access to affordable health-care. Lots of people are against it because they do not want their hospitals run by bureaucracy and stuff, but I'm pretty much for some sort of healthcare reform.

[Yonmanc]

i got banned from NMA for getting involved in this very discussion. i'll pass.

I'm not trying to incite any flaming shenaningans by the way, just out of interest really.

[TwinkieGorilla]

i'm a huge Noam Chomsky fan. that's all i'll say about this.

[Retlaw83]

i got banned from NMA for getting involved in this very discussion. i'll pass.

Say your piece. No one here gives a fuck.

To any non-Americans, here's your first tip: Don't believe anything Michael Moore says. About anything. Ever. When trying to push his angle, he calls his work documentaries, then when someone calls him on the factual errors (he edits footage to backup his claims constantly) he claims he's an entertainer and the movies are entertainment.

As for healthcare reform, the US has needed it for years. However, the current bill dictates that you must buy it and companies must provide it, without any funding from the Federal government for it. There's also so many loopholes and stupid ideas throughout the thing, combined with lack of Federal funding, that most states are suing on the grounds the law is unconstitutional.

Not to mention the fact the way the law was passed was illegal - they rammed it through the process for modifying budgets, which allows them to bypass opposition. No other bill has been done like that before.

[TwinkieGorilla]

no. dude. fuck that shit. everything you said is regurgitated hyperbolic rhetoric which your media of choice has obviously convinced you of.

this whole fucking topic, not to mention current administration, has brought on what i personally perceive as the greatest mind-fuck of the american populous of my lifetime. i fucking long for the cold war in comparison to phrases like "Not to mention the fact the way the law was passed was illegal" as if the whole fucking process hadn't gone through insane filters for a whole year before all the cunts opposing each other were able to water it down to a piece of shit which did NOBODY any fucking good anyway.

fucking liberals and conservatives and libertarians...all of you cunts should be shot on fucking sight for believing all the propaganda you read and hear every day. fucking human disappointments the lot of you.

/drunkpost.

[TwinkieGorilla]

btw, i'm more "For" than against. and if you haven't done your actual research? then i hope you're one of the fucks who realizes that if you had cancer and didn't know it..and then decides you need treatment...with the passing of this bill you'll no longer get turned down because of bullshit insurance loopholes like "pre-existing conditions".

i'd love it. personally...i'd fucking love to see every conservative cunt on their knees in a situation where this bill actually benefits them...and then have it taken away from them when proof of their lack of support were to be shown in a court.

my personal solution? Drop the fucking bombs. this world deserves nothing less.

[TwinkieGorilla]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2zYaKXe ... re=related

[Retlaw83]

There you go. Let the anger out.

I don't care which fucking party passes what fucking bill, if you use reconciliation to ram something through that isn't a budget, you've broken the law. If you mandate states supply something and do not provide funding, you've broken the law. It's clear you're one of the fucks who doesn't mind the government fucking you in the ass every chance it gets while it's pissing on the constitution, because that's what's been happening since Nixon.

Yeah, insurance companies can no longer turn you down for pre-existing conditions. But they can still charge you a fucking assload because you have pre-existing conditions - the bill doesn't do anything to protect consumers or keep the price of insurance in line, while demanding everyone buy some form of insurance.

I don't regurgitate things the media spouts - and if your claim had any viability I'd be going on about death panels and other shit that isn't real.


The law is ill-conceived, with no real consumer protection and was passed unconstitutionally. Healthcare is a problem we need to fix and this isn't the solution.

[TwinkieGorilla]

It's clear you're one of the fucks who doesn't mind the government fucking you in the ass every chance it gets while it's pissing on the constitution, because that's what's been happening since Nixon.

oh really? that's clear? see...'cause you and i? we've never really met and sat down and hashed out a real conversation. no. see...the only thing that's clear to me is that you're a douchbag who reads your preferred news outlet.

Healthcare is a problem we need to fix and this isn't the solution.

yeah. and do you know why this isn't the solution? because the cunts fighting over it turned it into a useless pile of shit. but let me tell you something: RP is a cunt and wouldn't have turned out any different from any of these other cunts.

and as for "Ramming down the throats"...lulz. give me a fucking break. have you been paying attention to this small bit of news over the last fucking year? seriously. people like you make me want to move to Iraq just so i can fight you. fuck you.

fuck you.

fuck your family.

fuck every dense cunt in your family.

fuck your fucking heritage.

fuck your fucking misuse of the constitution

and fuck your fucking monobrow.

[King of Creation]

Don't believe anything Michael Moore says. About anything. Ever.

QFE


As an American who has lived in a country with fantastic National health insurance, I can tell you that the current way of trying to fix things in the US is idiotic. It is absolutely insane that the government can force you to buy anything at all - that part is completely unconstitutional.

I lived under this scenario for almost 2 years, and it was fantastic. If it was implemented in the US, loads of people would whine about insurance companies losing business and blah blah. Whatever. I know the system works, and so does everyone in Taiwan. It was a ridiculously cheap system as well. You pay a few dollars out of pocket, and the government picks up the rest when you need to visit the doctor or get prescriptions. The premium you pay is based on how much money you earn, and even as a foreigner earning well over the population's average, I only paid a few dollars a month.

Here's the story:

The government set up a planning commission and looked abroad to study other countries’ health care systems. Taiwan looked at more than ten countries and combined their best qualities to form their own unique system. In 1995, Taiwan formed the National Health Insurance (NHI) model. In a 2009 interview, Dr. Michael Chen, Vice President and CFO of Taiwan's National Health Insurance Bureau explained that one of the models investigated was the United States and that fundamentally, NHI "is modeled after (U.S.) Medicare. And there are so many similarities - other than that our program covers all of the population, and Medicare covers only the elderly. It seems the way to go to have social insurance." NHI delivers universal coverage offered by a government-run insurer. The working population pays premiums split with their employers, others pay a flat rate with government help and the poor or veterans are fully subsidized. Taiwan’s citizens no longer have to worry about going bankrupt due to medical bills.

Also, every doctor and hospital in the country is under the program. "But won't it bankrupt the government?" you might say - you'd be wrong because unlike the US, healthcare is not a criminal enterprise designed to milk you for all you are worth. Prices in general are much lower, even without health insurance. Doctors fees are also RIDICULOUSLY lower, yet they still manage to get rich.

Anyways, have a read through this to familiarize yourself with a system that pretty much works.

[Retlaw83]

no. see...the only thing that's clear to me is that you're a douchbag who reads your preferred news outlet.

Then your world view must lack a lot of clarity.

yeah. and do you know why this isn't the solution? because the cunts fighting over it turned it into a useless pile of shit.

No shit. The biggest problem we have right now is the Republicans claiming over and over again that the Obama administration with a Democratic house and senate can't get anything done. Result: The Republicans cannot display any bipartisanship or help make meaningful legistlation prior to the midterm elections (which they're confident they'll win) because then the Democrats in power get something done. As a result, anything helpful to actual people will be put down like a lame horse, while the Democrats will break the law in desperation to pass <i>something</i>, which will be full of un-opposed ideas instead of some compromise like the system is supposed to promote.

but let me tell you something: RP is a cunt and wouldn't have turned out any different from any of these other cunts.

Who the fuck is RP?

and as for "Ramming down the throats"...lulz. give me a fucking break. have you been paying attention to this small bit of news over the last fucking year? seriously. people like you make me want to move to Iraq just so i can fight you. fuck you.

I wasn't aware most Iraqi insurgents were against the idea of government-mandated out of pocket expenses while letting the insurance industry grow by billions of dollars. I thought most of them were pissed off about being invaded.

fuck you.

fuck your family.

fuck every dense cunt in your family.

This is the real mental level of most NMAers - they just can't let it out for fear of a ban.

fuck your fucking heritage.

The last names in my family are Marsh, Barker, Walter and various other forms of limery. Those British sure do need to be taken down a peg.

fuck your fucking misuse of the constitution

I don't believe I've ever been given the opportunity to misuse the constitution, but if a situation arises I'll be sure to let you know.

and fuck your fucking monobrow.

That's MR Snake's monobrow in my avatar. Since I'm not a caveman, I don't have one.

[Kashluk]

fantastic National health insurance

The problem with Taiwan is that the system is straining the nation's budget. The premiums are too low and there's not enough political will to raise them. So the bills are paid with national debt.

[King of Creation]

That wouldn't be a problem in the United States. The US basically has a blank check when it comes to debt. Since China and Japan hold so much of the debt, the US can just keep on racking it up because if China or Japan went crazy and called the US on it, the entire world economy would collapse.

[Kashluk]

...

I wouldn't advice a home owner to just trust on the 'blank check', much less a government of any kind.

[VasikkA]

fucking liberals and conservatives and libertarians...all of you cunts should be shot on fucking sight for believing all the propaganda you read and hear every day. fucking human disappointments the lot of you.

Amen.

[King of Creation]

...

I wouldn't advice a home owner to just trust on the 'blank check', much less a government of any kind.

It's a lose-lose situation with China-US. If China calls in US debt, then the Chinese economy collapses as a result of the US economy collapsing. With the collapse of the two biggest economies, the rest of the world follows suit and we are back in the Dark Ages hombre.

[Kashluk]

Which is exactly the reason why I wouldn't play dice with that sort of thing.

[King of Creation]

Unfortunately, the Chinese are huge gamblers :Macao: