Video Interview with Tim Cain part 2

Post by **King of Creation** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:51 am

<strong>[ Person -> Interview ]</strong> - More info on <a href="http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Tim Cain">Person: Tim Cain</a>

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SenisterDenister · Post by **SenisterDenister** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:28 am

His last line gave me goosebumps.

jetbaby · Post by **jetbaby** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:59 am

:mancrush:

PiP · Post by **PiP** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:01 am

good stuff

Yonmanc · Post by **Yonmanc** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:06 pm

Great interview. Thought we'd have to wait longer for the second part.

Cimmerian Nights · Post by **Cimmerian Nights** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:33 pm

When I hear him describe the RPG elements he had meant for the series to be based upon in the first interview, then hear the thematic content he infused it with... Without him, and without those concepts, Fallout is fucking dead. Buried.

His last line gave me goosebumps.

I think Fallout and the RPG industry as a whole has become a victim of it's own success.

The ending of the interview he basically spells out how marketing and sales starting enforcing design constraints on the folks who already had a winning formula. And shit has slid further downhill in the last 10 years. Then the license ends up in the hands of some unscrupulous trend-whores like Bethesda who pander to the XBox crowd and you might as well kiss the design concepts that Fallout was based upon goodbye.

That was the death of Fallout and most cRPGs. The concepts it stood for even back in 1997 apparently are dead to the mainstream and developers without a spine, who don't design but instead let marketing dictate their design based upon marketing figures and simple-to-understand game concepts.

Tim Cain is really candid in his interviews, these were great. Compare this to a Todd Howard/Pete Hines stroke-job where it's all hollow promises and lip-service to design concepts they cannot grasp.

Cain and Chris Taylor - without them, it's just a name on an empty box.

Tofu Man · Post by **Tofu Man** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:21 am

Notice how his smile dies when he starts talking about Fo2. Kinda makes you feel like shit if you thought it was better than the first one. What goes around comes around I guess...

The ending of the interview he basically spells out how marketing and sales starting enforcing design constraints on the folks who already had a winning formula.

And now I know the why on that brilliant quote - "Marketing people are the bane of the universe. And I used to think it was lawyers." - though it still made for one heck of a game.

Kashluk · Post by **Kashluk** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:58 pm

" It felt that in a big way our success, because we were successful, we were losing part of the game to a larger group that had bigger plans for it. "

- Tim Cain

Same goes for other forms of entertainment (industry): http://io9.com/5438275/district-9s-neil ... get-movies

cazsim83 · Post by **cazsim83** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:15 am

who the shit is matt whatever and why did he get an interview? Get your shit together, everyone else!

also - lmao @ "I think (Bethesda) captured subway stations really well (In FO3)"

Kashluk · Post by **Kashluk** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:47 pm

cazsim83 wrote:also - lmao @ "I think (Bethesda) captured subway stations really well (In FO3)"

It's hard to be nice to your current employer and honest at the same time.

Tofu Man · Post by **Tofu Man** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:43 pm

I'm not sure he isn't just joking. If he lived in the area and all the praise he offers is regarding those bland, repetitive subway stations then maybe he is.

Kashluk wrote:
It's hard to be nice to your current employer and honest at the same time.

Not that I don't agree with you here, but is everyone under the employ of shitesda? I've yet to see someone from inside the industry call Fo3 for what it is. All they ever do is praise the graphical achievement. Nothing on the terse animations, nothing on the bad shooting mechanics, nothing on the writing, well I could go on, but I'm preaching to the choir here.
How hard can it be for someone in the industry (or even around it, but i'm not even mentioning """"professional"""" reviewers) to actually be, you know, honest?

Cimmerian Nights · Post by **Cimmerian Nights** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:25 pm

Tofu Man wrote:I'm not sure he isn't just joking. If he lived in the area and all the praise he offers is regarding those bland, repetitive subway stations then maybe he is.

I have to agree, I've only been to DC 3 or 4 times, but the subway station ceilings are the only thing that really have a modern DC look. The high, vaulted ceilings over the platforms with the honey-comb indentations. That's the ceiling pattern. So yeah, they got that right. Kudos.

In typical Bethesda fashion they cookie cutter the same fucking subway station each time.

Kashluk · Post by **Kashluk** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:10 pm

Tofu Man wrote:Not that I don't agree with you here, but is everyone under the employ of shitesda? I've yet to see someone from inside the industry call Fo3 for what it is. All they ever do is praise the graphical achievement. Nothing on the terse animations, nothing on the bad shooting mechanics, nothing on the writing, well I could go on, but I'm preaching to the choir here.
How hard can it be for someone in the industry (or even around it, but i'm not even mentioning """"professional"""" reviewers) to actually be, you know, honest?

It's a company on the grow. Potential future partners don't want to anger such a giant, and most of the 'pro' reviewers are on their payroll. That's the state of the industry, man.

Tofu Man · Post by **Tofu Man** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:07 pm

Cimmerian Nights wrote: In typical Bethesda fashion they cookie cutter the same fucking subway station each time.

And now you know why they went with DC rather than Moscow

Kashluk wrote: It's a company on the grow. Potential future partners don't want to anger such a giant, and most of the 'pro' reviewers are on their payroll. That's the state of the industry, man.

Add to that that they have the least demanding customer base I can think of, and all of a sudden the average gamer is being told what he likes, becoming more undemanding as time passes, and essencially allowing an industry that should provide them with what they want to become a cartel who churns out crap that they think they love, failing to realise they've been turned to acritical -free PR providing- fanboy drones, thus leaving the rest of us who enjoy a decent game once in a while with a thumb up our arses waiting for the messiah. /rant

Feel like writing a new editorial yet Cimmerian?

Cimmerian Nights · Post by **Cimmerian Nights** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 4:46 pm

Tofu Man wrote: Feel like writing a new editorial yet Cimmerian?

I liked where your rant was headed actually.

I'll write another one if Uncle Blargh promises to babysit my kids for a few hours.

Username · Post by **Username** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:54 am

I actually wonder. Did anyone take the duck and cover crap seriously back then?

Cimmerian Nights · Post by **Cimmerian Nights** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:13 am

I think America was much more trusting of authority figures, politicians and the gov't in general pre-Kennedy assasination, pre-Nixon resignation, pre-Viet Nam.

I suppose that's a cyclical trend though, since the founding fathers built in safeguards to account for unscrupulous fuckwads.

Unless you were black, Uncles Sam took care of business for you in the 40s and 50s. When shit is going smooth, people are less likely to be so suspicious and discerning.

Post by **Retlaw83** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:24 am

My parents were alive during the Cold War. According to them they thought the Russians could launch nukes at any time, and school children knew damn well duck and cover wouldn't save them - they had regular drills.

Kashluk · Post by **Kashluk** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:18 am

Retlaw83 wrote:My parents were alive during the Cold War. According to them they thought the Russians could launch nukes at any time, and school children knew damn well duck and cover wouldn't save them - they had regular drills.

My parents and grandparents didn't really bother with thinking about the nuclear war since everybody would die then anyway. They were more afraid of 'traditional' Soviet land invasion, since the last try was still fresh in memory.

Tofu Man · Post by **Tofu Man** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:07 pm

Cimmerian Nights wrote:I liked where your rant was headed actually.

I'll write another one if Uncle Blargh promises to babysit my kids for a few hours.

"How much I hate today's computer games" by Tofu Man.
You know, somehow I don't see it being a success in the 12-18 y/o demographic. Blargh better get a move on, then.

Kashluk wrote:My parents and grandparents didn't really bother with thinking about the nuclear war since everybody would die then anyway. They were more afraid of 'traditional' Soviet land invasion, since the last try was still fresh in memory.

As a curiosity, Kash, anyone in your family felt or saw anything when they detonated that 50Mton bomb ? Or is all the "breaking windows in Finland" thing just internet exaggeration?