What political party do you subscribe to?

[Kashluk]

The problem with "two-party systems" per se is the voting system that is based on simplest form of majority, a single-winner voting system. That's what causes the whole setup of two parties. When "ultimate power" can be gained (and only be gained) by achieving >50 % of the votes/seats, parties tend to grow into huge bipolar entities - they blur their agenda enough that more people will become sympathetic to their cause. This can, indeed, produce much more effective governments since there isn't much need to worry about the opposition as it's only your own party forming the government. That, plus the fact in UK that the ruling government can decide when the next election is held, which gives them a major cutting edge. BUT - when the system gives you the option that power does not necessary require a simple majority, when in fact governments can be formed by coalitions such as two parties that had both earned 26 % of the votes, you will end up with a multi-party system.

My main argument here is this: as efficient as one-party or absolute-one-party-majority governments can be, they may not necessarily represent the true will of the people. A deliberative, consensus-seeking multi-party coalition may seem slow, inefficient and quarrelling, but it produces better end results when it comes to executing democary. Let's think about it this way: how many US citizens can back up their party ideology 100 per cent, to completely agree with every single issue on their party's agenda? Not many. Let's say, for the sake of discussion, that it's every fifth person. Now, when we have a much broader selection of potential ruling parties (e.g. three major parties, two mid-sized ones and some minor ones), the chances for finding a best match ideology-wise have doubled, if not more. And people aren't required to "vote strategically", to give up their ideals just because it's only one of the two biggest parties that's going to rule anyhow.

[Blargh]

We've a particularly delightful coalition in Australia. Mob of mostly fascist cunts. And then we have the ALP . . . Spoiled for choice !

[fallout ranger]

That's what causes the whole setup of two parties.

How about the electoral college eh. No chance of a winner there with anything but a 2 party system. Sucks.

[Taco-Hero]

I dunno.

[Kashluk]

That's what causes the whole setup of two parties.

How about the electoral college eh. No chance of a winner there with anything but a 2 party system. Sucks.

I wouldn't even go as far as call electoral colleges 'democratic' in most senses. When the direct connection between the voter and the representative using his/her free mandate on valuating issues is broken (i.e. there is an elector in the middle), there's not much left of 'rule of the people'.

[Manoil]

We've a particularly delightful coalition in Australia

[fallout ranger]

That's what causes the whole setup of two parties.

How about the electoral college eh. No chance of a winner there with anything but a 2 party system. Sucks.

I wouldn't even go as far as call electoral colleges 'democratic' in most senses. When the direct connection between the voter and the representative using his/her free mandate on valuating issues is broken (i.e. there is an elector in the middle), there's not much left of 'rule of the people'.

It essentially FORCES a 2 party system. swell guy.

[SenisterDenister]

There really aren't electors in the system either, they're only used if the vote is too close to tell, which even then it would be recounted. The electoral college works by allocating states a certain number of points based on population which are then tallied up with other states, ensuring that there is a more equal representation of states in national politics instead of using a straight popular vote.

[fallout ranger]

Yeah it means the people like me in commifornia get fucked and our votes don't count. I'd say at least a good 7 million ((at least)) don't vote democrat, yet it's always a blue state

[SenisterDenister]

They do count, its just a winner take all system. North Carolina was a blue state for the first time since Jimmy Carter I think. Which is weird, because on the state level NC has been run by the Democrats for decades. Its a blue state that voted red in national politics.

[Kashluk]

.... aaand this is how we get back to the funky chart I made back on page two - the inconsistency between elected representatives and de facto will of the people via universal vote.

[fallout ranger]

The point i was trying to make was (presidential election) that here, where i live, the votes of people like me are silenced.

[Kashluk]

We've got parliamentary examples here as well. A regional vote-puller (second most personal votes in the entire region) didn't become an MP because she represented the 'wrong' party (a minor party), which didn't otherwise have enough big name candidates. People with less than a half of her votes got elected from that region - they were on the lists of major parties. The reason for this was D'Hondt's method used in the vote/seat calculation.

[Manoil]

The point i was trying to make was (presidential election) that here, where i live, the votes of people like me are silenced.

Silenced, no. Insignificant, yes.

[Mismatch]

bah, fucking cunt-tards.
I win!

[fallout ranger]

The point i was trying to make was (presidential election) that here, where i live, the votes of people like me are silenced.

Silenced, no. Insignificant, yes.

Not silenced? Explain.

[Manoil]

You can say and support whatever you want.
Will people give a shit? Unlikely.
Will it change much? Unlikely.

It would seem the only way to get attention from masses these days is via shock. Other than that, your vote is counted but the value of said vote borders on non-existance. So you still have the right to be angry, though the government, for the most part, has covered its bases.

Unless of course, Shady Sands is a dictatorship; that throws everything off.

[fallout ranger]

Alright alright you're correct. Guess i should have been more specific.

Unless of course, Shady Sands is a dictatorship; that throws everything off.

It is, aradesh is a dick lately,

[Manoil]

Spoiled for choice !

[Blargh]

They say He has done So Much for Osstrayaa . . .

Would have thought it obvious that the tax hounds are always tweaked by a death in the family, no ? And They are talking millions. Apparently. It's about it being a symbol of a message of a <deleted>, right ? Can't let the little-people see the non-little-people get away with bilking the experts. Don't want for Ideas, right ?

There's whispering that neither of Them Will Not Stand for not having a crushing majority both up and not. Perhaps they're just indulging some . . . proactive fund-raising in preparation for more self indulgent tax wastage to go with the self indulgent prattle politik ? If they're going after Him, after all . . .

WHO CAN SAY ?

we cannot coexist. Just like the others.