The Firearms Thread.

[AnneGwish]

How come America doesn't own as many ballgags as it does guns

Blame Puritans. Or Canada, that always seems a popular choice.

[fallout ranger]

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8rs9p ... rifle_news

Badass.

[Stalagmite]

Grabass.

[enclave]

hk g11e is beterr

[jimmypneumatic]

Ah yes, the G-11, a true marvel of technology. The rifle shoots three shot bursts with a cyclical chamber feed system, all three rounds sound like one shot because of the ultra high fire rate, so the idea is you aim once and hit three times. The specialized caseless ammunition is also very lightweight and weatherproof, so more ammo can be carried onto the field. But most all military organizations dropped it due to it having too many small moving parts that lowered reliability, and the expense.

Today they are very rare since there were only a few prototypes officially manufactured by H&K, but i'm sure they do exist in a few private collections somewhere.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8rs9p ... rifle_news

Also, that gun is bigger than the man shooting it.

[fallout ranger]

Also, casless ammo is more prone to moisture damage.

[jimmypneumatic]

True. That was one of the many reasons the weapon wasn't adopted for military use at the time. But later research of the chemical compounds used in the caseless ammo (too little too late) solved the susceptibility to moisture and fixed the "cook off" problem due to the rounds being subjected to high temperatures and firing unexpectedly.

[Wolfman Walt]

Went to the machine gun shoot. Had some interesting things there.

For instance, someone was selling the the AR-18 used in the first Terminator for 23k. Granted. It could have been ANY AR-18 and they just said it was the one used in the movie. I made the similar theory that I should do the same with a S&W Model 29 and say it was used in one of the Dirty Harrys.

Other neat things were a 37MM multi launcher for 5k and a minigun for 40k. Standard RPGs and M79's were also for sale. Might pick me up a set of NVGs or night scopes next time. Also want to pick me up a UMP some day in the future. MP5 would be nice, but they're always so expensive.

In the end, I couldn't hope to compete with the high prices, so I just bought the other Terminator gun: A Franchi SPAS-12 with folding stock. Dealer even threw in an extra folding stock. Yay.

[Stalagmite]

Pics?

[Frater Perdurabo]

You don't need permits for shit like miniguns and grenade launchers?

[Retlaw83]

You don't need permits for shit like miniguns and grenade launchers?

I know you don't for flame throwers.

I think the idea is the weapons are so cumbersome and the incidentals you need like accessories and ammunition are either regulated/so absurdly hard to come by and expensive that there's no realistic dangers. There's no way a real minigun can be carried and fired by a single man from a standing position, they stopped making flamethrowers around the WWII era and a tank gives you 30 seconds of burn for $75, and grenade launcher ammunition wouldn't be available to civilians unless it's some kind of specialized non-lethal or utility round.

[fallout ranger]

You don't need permits for shit like miniguns and grenade launchers?

Just the super high price (since FOPA) and NFA tax, a measly $200 on top of $40k. Highly regulated, must be made before May 1986. That's why LE/Mil can get a
full auto M16 for barely more than an AR15, and us civilians must pay ten times that. Scarcity.


Good job gettin that SPAS wolfman...video?

[Wolfman Walt]

Pics?

Forthcoming. I have to wait till next week to pick it up as it has to be transfered to my dealer at Knob Creek since the original dealer was from Florida.

I think the minigun I saw for sale was a .22 which could in theory be fired by a single person standing? I dunno. It was awful small, but 40k is a lot to ask for a .22 minigun, so then again, maybe not. But even so, it's as you said Retlaw, it's unfeasable for someone to do anything but set up shop. The minigun in Predator had to have the actors propped up to just fire blanks. I can't imagine what it'd be like to try and fire an actual minigun while standing. Plus the weight of it all if you're trying to chase down people. You're just better off carrying a select fire rifle.

Regardless, what you're thinking about is a class 3 license, Frater, and no. You actually don't have to have one. I suggest checking out the National Firearms Act as that's the piece that seems to really govern the rules. They are regulated - yes, but really I don't think you need a special permit. You just have to register it.

It is a common misconception[3] that an individual must have a "Class 3 License" in order to own NFA firearms. An FFL is required as a prerequisite to become a Special Occupation Taxpayer (SOT): Class 1 importer, Class 2 manufacturer or Class 3 dealer in NFA firearms, not an individual owner. Legal possession of an NFA firearm by an individual requires transfer of registration within the NFA registry. An individual owner does not need to be an NFA dealer to buy Title II firearms. The sale and purchase of NFA firearms is, however, heavily taxed and regulated...

In addition. I have the fact that I'm technically Law Enforcement on my side. That helps.


...Or you just go under the table. Not saying I've ever done it, but it happens and people know it happens. That's why it wouldn't suprise me if the place was full of ATF agents.

[Frater Perdurabo]

Interesting. Makes you think though that it would be fairly easy for a terrorist (i.e. the guy who just got life sentence for the attempted bombing in New York) to acquire firearms. It's not like they lack funding. Interestingly enough, a substantial segment of acts of attempted terrorism are foiled by the idiocy of their perpetrators. You guys should watch the recent British comedy Four Lions. The director became interested in terrorism in the UK and thus went to sit in during court hearings. What he discovered was that all of these terrorists had these brilliant well thought-through plans and managed to fuck them all by making the dumbest mistakes, thus he made a movie out of it. It's pretty damn funny.

[Wolfman Walt]

It's always easy to get firearms illegally. That's never the question. Most criminals have enough connections that even if firearms were made illegal, it'd be a minor inconvience at best. Terrorists only make it worse as they're generally tied to a network that is able to move neccesary equipment.

As for them getting a legal firearm? I suppose you're right. It could be easy, although they'd have had to step through a variety of loops to get it. Doesn't mean they wouldn't, just it'd take abit of planning and seems kind of a bad idea as it's another piece that could be traced to you. If you purchase class III stuff, you're instantly on the ATF's watch list. I wouldn't be suprised if I'm on one for buying the SPAS as it's now a banned weapon. You have to be a U.S. citizen. You generally have to wait quite awhile to pick one up. They're expensive when bought legally (An automatic MP-5 can run up to over 10,000). Overall, I think it's generally less problematic to buy it illegally if that's their intent.

[Username]

Wait a MP5 costs 10 000 USD?


Like equal to a car?
What the fuck?

If I was gonna get one in the US I'd get it illegaly then.
And that's without me wanting to do something crimianl with it.

How can the government even have the nerve to charge so much?
Guns only for the rich? I mean seriously.

Rather (although its a bad option) completely forbid the weapon.
The weapon can't cost more than some 700-800-900 to produce, right?

Here's some guy on a forum claiming the legal cost is even more than 10k.

MP5 machine guns are going to cost you!! $16000 - $24000

Bloody insane. I'm sure countries and police do not pay more than 2000 for one.

[Retlaw83]

Wait a MP5 costs 10 000 USD?


Like equal to a car?
What the fuck?

That would be a cheap car.

Plus it's a submachine gun - civilians don't need one of those, and if a civilian does they're going to pay a huge premium because the manufacturer's know they can charge more, and the government wants to tax the shit out of it.

[Stalagmite]

How can the government even have the nerve to charge so much?

What? I was under the impression that arms dealers were more or less private.

You have to acquire a license to get a gun here. It's a bit harder here than in the US I'm sure but it's one of the laws here that I am content with. I don't like the idea of armed lunatics threatening to overthrow the government that America has been made famous for in various circles.

In honesty though I don't really care for guns too much I'm more into cars, I mean, they're nice to look at but what the fuck's the point of owning anything larger or smaller than a hunting rifle?

[Username]

Recently 40k was much for a jetpack...?

Seriously I thought that it was the government jacking up prices this much through various taxes and licenses. I doubt the dealers are pricing it 10 times its real value or? Maybe its a mix but somehow I feel the gov has more to answer in this one.

[Stalagmite]

Well if that's the case than the yanks are screwed for future gun ownership with Obamarama as Pres.