Utøya, Norge

[SenisterDenister]

You should get of youtube for a while then. Go outside and get in more drunken bar fights yelling about how great DAC is or something.

[VasikkA]

Death penalty is irreversible. Finding contradicting evidence later on won't help the executed prisoner (who's now actually become a victim).

In criminal prosecution you'll always face uncertainty. It's ultimately a trade-off and the line must be drawn somewhere. I'm willing to risk a small amount of wrong calls (even death penalty) for a functioning justice system that prevents crime.

As for where to set the boundaries, that's for the democratic process to determine. Personally, if my closest ones would be deliberately and undeservedly slain, I probably wouldn't oppose a death penalty so it would be hypocritical of me to oppose it generally. But of course, that's subjective.

[Megatron]

The whole martyrdom aspect is also something to consider. Not to mention the possibility of doing research, like Tofu Man suggested. Usually these kinds of loonies blow their own brains out in the end, so it's impossible to ask them "why?" Now we have the chance, perhaps a chance to prevent some events like this from happening as well.

Maybe he'll just release a bunch of folk music and shave his hair off then in twenty years they'll be a popstar called Angelina Breivik.

In criminal prosecution you'll always face uncertainty. It's ultimately a trade-off and the line must be drawn somewhere. I'm willing to risk a small amount of wrong calls (even death penalty) for a functioning justice system that prevents crime.

What is the point in a functioning justice system that prevents crime if the state kills innocent people? I never really understood death punishment. It doesn't really scare people into not committing crime as I imagine most criminals don't think they'll get caught. And even in a case as clear cut as this, he shouldn't be executed as he's mentally unstable. Not that it would matter much depending if somebody was sane or not, but it should factor into whichever sentence is carried out.

Also, Norway isn't America. Why should the world run on the laws set by a country built on bones of old apaches and where the streets run with a pink foam of blood and crack cocaine. Also, they're broke as fuck, partially because of the whole concept of punishment. Bullshit wars and draconian justice systems isn't something that's working out too swell for obambata. whateverrrrr

You should get of youtube for a while then. Go outside and get in more drunken bar fights yelling about how great DAC is or something.

sometimes i can barely sup my red wine as im talking about how dac is the number one fansite for the fallout franchise from the nineties.

[St. Toxic]

I'm willing to risk a small amount of wrong calls (even death penalty) for a functioning justice system that prevents crime.

Prevent crime eh? Sounds like you're talking pre-crime apprehension ala Minority Report, and even there you're stuck with the possibility that in predicting events you may actually be creating them.

There's no crime prevention system within the law bro. The law is only there to punish offenders after the fact, meaning that if Anders sincerely professed that he had no further intentions of genocide and meant it, letting him go would be as just as locking him up for life or killing him, that is if we do not equate justice to punishment. If justice is to inflict an equal amount of direct suffering on the perpetrator as that which he inflicted on his victims, then torture would be a much better tool of justice than incarceration or, for that matter, termination.

In my opinion, the whole system and especially people's perceptions of that system are deeply flawed. If you want a chance to prevent crimes and reduce crime rates it is done through social reform. When people feel that they are justly treated by society they are far less likely to treat others unjustly.

Oh, and don't forget racial purity. Some subhumans are beyond reasoning with and simply need to be culled for the betterment of all mankind.

[rad resistance]

In my opinion, the whole system and especially people's perceptions of that system are deeply flawed. If you want a chance to prevent crimes and reduce crime rates it is done through social reform. When people feel that they are justly treated by society they are far less likely to treat others unjustly.

[Yonmanc]

You should get of youtube for a while then. Go outside and get in more drunken bar fights yelling about how great DAC is or something.

That's for Fridays.

[VasikkA]

There's no crime prevention system within the law bro.

Sure there is, to some extent. If there is a reasonable probability of getting caught and receiving a punishment, a rational person must take that into consideration when deciding whether to engage in criminal activity. A credible legal system and legal enforcement is vital for any society to run properly.

The law is only there to punish offenders after the fact

Also, to provide reparation (or satisfaction, if you wish) to the victims/relatives. Perhaps not always material, but nevertheless important, in my opinion. How strongly this aspect dominates penalties depends on the wants of the public.

In my opinion, the whole system and especially people's perceptions of that system are deeply flawed. If you want a chance to prevent crimes and reduce crime rates it is done through social reform. When people feel that they are justly treated by society they are far less likely to treat others unjustly.

It's a combination of a stern but transparent judicial (crime and punishment) and democratic system (possibility for social reform). One does not exclude the other.

[Tofu Man]

The worse thing is, now apparently you can't buy Cod anymore. In Norway, of all places.

[rad resistance]

Where do you think Anders Brevik learned to gun down children in the tactical fashion.

[St. Toxic]

There's no crime prevention system within the law bro.

Sure there is, to some extent. If there is a reasonable probability of getting caught and receiving a punishment, a rational person must take that into consideration when deciding whether to engage in criminal activity. A credible legal system and legal enforcement is vital for any society to run properly.

A rational person never engages in criminal, that is socially unaccepted, activities, for which there are consequences well outside the law. At best the law discourages people, who already aren't inclined to behave inappropriately, from doing so.

In my opinion, the whole system and especially people's perceptions of that system are deeply flawed. If you want a chance to prevent crimes and reduce crime rates it is done through social reform. When people feel that they are justly treated by society they are far less likely to treat others unjustly.

It's a combination of a stern but transparent judicial (crime and punishment) and democratic system (possibility for social reform). One does not exclude the other.

And I made no such claim. I'm merely pointing out that it is mainly through social reform and not the legal system one might have a positive impact on crime statistics. The idea that, as an example, reintroducing hanging would have overall positive consequences on society and that crime would go down is one that I've always found ludicrous. At best it would discourage people from committing petty crimes, but violent crimes would in all likelihood be on the rise with the government leading society by example.

[Megatron]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14400246

oh the humanity. england now run by a cowellistic web of foetal alcohol racists.

[rad resistance]

Is the prison system in Europe maintained and run by the government?

[Mismatch]

You'll need to be moar specific than yurup mate, we're still separate countries (except for belgium). But I think it is in most parts, big government is big here.

We need a Ron Paul or two.

[Megatron]

the prison system in england is funded by the royal family hence the phrase 'at her majestys pleasure'. it used to be traditional that a member of the royal family watch executions until the last one in 1964.

Are prisons in europe the same as the north american ones or are they in places like castles?

[Yonmanc]

the prison system in england is funded by the royal family hence the phrase 'at her majestys pleasure'. it used to be traditional that a member of the royal family watch executions until the last one in 1964.

Are prisons in europe the same as the north american ones or are they in places like castles?

Actually the prisons here are funded by public taxes. According to this site, 4.79 billion in 2009, which is apparently a lot more than we spent on Post-Secondary education (143Million).

[rad resistance]

Who here thinks the prison system in the US is a corrupt bloated whale kept afloat by both taxes and private funds?

[Retlaw83]

I do.