In this thread we discuss China's position as the new superp

[Megatron]

whats china all about. In my head I'm like 'duh, China?' but it seems there is more than meets the eye.

We are all familiar with the history of China of course, sort of. But nowadays people are like 'mew mew mew China is bad' and I'm like 'so's America ya piece of trash' so it seems as though we are at a cultural geopolitical socioeconomic post-ironic pre-bla bla.

So lay it out for me, doc. What's China all about. Can we separate the actions of the Chinese government and the people of China ITT? Is it possible to discuss China on DAC without any racism? What do we really mean when we say 'Chin-a' like that youtube video of donald trump pronouncing it weirdly?

uhhhhhhh

Hit me

[Jeff]

China is mankind's most perfect propaganda machine so very hard to tell what's what any more. Is it even a country? Who knows, its bionic feelers reach everywhere. Maybe we will soon have a couple of superstates, 1984 style, my ass will probably belong to Russia so the whole USA/China thing is all the same to me.

Anyway, their soft power shenanigans are pretty impressive, everything from pandas to exchange students are just government spies. Killing us softly with their song:
起�� �愿�奴隶的人们�

[Hyacinth]

China is the spawn of Abraham Lincolns capitalistic ideals and Lenin Communistovich plan economy. Fusion power. China is growing strong, let's build for China.
Commies with cash. $$$ It's refreshing somehow to be so blatant about it and not lobbying everything in the dark like in the west. Just raw dogging the citizens with ai and honor social credit systems. Not even trying to pretend being a good guy. Big fish. Market crash.

Heres an amalgam of forbidden text for you Beijing visitors:

�熊维尼 包� 赖喇 �独立 � Talking about independence/tank men/popular English bears, censorship and in any way ��笑� mocking the Soviet Union is considered making fun of communism which is bad for 709律师 � A group of human rights activists and lawyers arrested on July 9 (7/9), 2015.�克人.

[Amis]

Having family from said country and being born in a previous island that was owned by capitalist pigs I would just like to share this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47csVAd ... rmegakosta

In all seriousness,

China has been working for several decades in becoming the new superpower in the world and already have several webs concerning western countries, this has also affected my work quite a lot, at the moment in the construction industry prices have gone up 30% in material costs, apparently due to China stockpiling vast amounts of material. They pretty much control the World Health Organization, in whereas Wuhan was concerned it was not even allowed to mention the lab leak theory, not mentioning the video where a WHO representative ignored mentioning Taiwan being recognized in the organization, cutting the video call with the Taiwanese news station.
Having actual personal issues relating to China I have had to be kinda careful in what I say being in a call with my family in that part of the world.

Great country with rich history but todays social point system and total regard of its workers safety and individuality completely fight against the western system that was pretty much born from the age of enlightment.

[SenisterDenister]

China's history is one of violence, bloodshed, cannibalism, and humiliation. When it isn't one it's the other, their culture is inherently insular and stagnant, and only after adopting western modes of thought have they begun to branch out globally. That said it isn't necessarily a good thing, as they are picking and choosing which ideas to adopt, and then aren't adopting them properly with the right context or care of the consequences, so you have people raised in poverty suddenly given hyper-capitalist motivations of wealth and materialism, encourage underhanded means of success, and the end result, instead of trying to actually educate and push morality, is to implement a draconian points system to cow people into not doing the right thing, but to not do bad things to lower their social standings. It's the difference between education children to do acts of good versus simply punishing them for doing wrong. Their society is an awful chimera of Chinese romanticism but still totalitarian and communist but also back stabbing capitalists. Their societies have always been collectivist and discourages individualism, but now it's all up in the air. I don't rightly think they even know what they're doing, they're just trying every trick in the book to get ahead globally. I don't like China, Taiwan is the only China that exists to me. I know people that moved to the US from Hong Kong and they called mainlanders locusts, and after years of watching CCTV footage coming out of mainland China it's hard to disagree with them.

[Jeff]

I feel like a lot of that applies to the great U.S. of A. as well, change my mind #kashluk

[SenisterDenister]

The United States has one of violence and bloodshed, but not one of cannibalism and humiliation. Lots of violence, though. It's also extroverted, with a long history of expansion and conquest. Lots of violence, though.

[Jeff]

I would probably categorize slavery as humiliation, maybe we are thinking of different sorts of humiliations. People raised in poverty given hyper-capitalist motivations of wealth and materialism sounds like the modern American dream. USA doesn't have a social credit system but you have credit score which has some similar social implications. You both like building long walls. Seriously though I don't mean to turn this thread into a whataboutism circle jerk, I'm sure there are more differences than similarities, I'm merely using bullshit examples to suggest that upon closer inspection maybe USA doesn't have that much of a moral high ground. No cannibalism though.

I don't really know much about China of course, I'm anti-everything
Our only hope is that Bono will organize a big concert to make things better, like the time he ended poverty

edit: just to clarify I'm simply trying to say that if we make moral judgements about China we should consider the extent to which they're applicable to us as well; USA is just the obvious western superpower counterpart but naturally this doesn't wash the blood off our tender beautiful European hands either

[SenisterDenister]

One of the key differences is that the United States doesn't try to censor the past, at least for now. It's all out in the open, and there's plenty of room for dissent, and as far as the present we still have rights that our government, despite their best efforts, aren't removing any time soon. A government isn't inherently the people, but in collective societies like east Asia, where Confucianism is a foundation to their cultural perceptions of the individual in society, the government owns the people. There are also many aspects of modern America I don't like either, so I'm really not trying to be a hypocrite.

[Jeff]

Sure, when I was thinking about the differences I felt like human rights were the most prominent one. Well at least we try to respect them between "our" countries, third world sweat shops and Nicaraguas of the world be damned "You got the right to fight for your party" as the Chinese Beastie Boys song goes.

To me collectivism doesn't seem inherently like a bad choice (sometimes I wonder how beneficial our version of individualism actually is for the individual) but maybe on state level it's a bit like communism, inevitably leading to more state control and bad stuff I dunno.

[Megatron]

I started this thread as I was thinking how stories are framed regarding China as generally being sussy as hell for sintance:

Earlier this month, the [uk] company, which makes graphene – a “wonder material� made of a single layer of carbon atoms – grabbed the attention of the government, which said it would investigate a possible takeover involving a Chinese academic, in a highly unusual move that startled industry observers.

The controversy has shone a spotlight on the global race to develop graphene, suggesting that it may be about to make the long-promised leap from the lab to everyday products, and possibly to military uses as well. In particular, it has drawn attention to China’s attempt to corner the nascent industry, and the Communist state’s reach into British universities developing the technology.

when the same could be said for USA or Russia thirty years ago, whatever, though this is framed in UK press as chinese investment being bad. Chinese investors have put £50bn. into the UK property market (especially premium flats and student housing projects) and there's a decent amount of international students that come to UK universities etc.

I dont see what the beef is really, even within their internal policies and economies they still operate within a capitalist economy internationally and part of the general machinery of power/the system/etc. I know very little about contemporary chinese culture, though a bit part of that is that I dont socialise with any people with that heritage and are suspect of a lot of western analysis/texts around the country due to it acting as potential propaganda.

I also think its important to be clear as to what we're talking about - often when I will think of China I think more where power is concentrated, especially politically, whilst knowing much less about the general population or the differences in culture in different locations across such a large landmass. It feels a bit daft to me to discuss 'China' as this conceptual interpretation of a country, but learning more about something will always start with daft questions.

[Jeff]

are you saying that you want to talk more about the rich cultural heritage of locust cannibalism instead of the power dynamics of an evil communist super-state operating within the capitalist framework or something

I know very little about contemporary chinese culture, though a bit part of that is that I dont socialise with any people with that heritage and are suspect of a lot of western analysis/texts around the country due to it acting as potential propaganda.

Yeah it's tricky. Sometimes I wonder whether the resulting distrust and skepticism is working against China or in their favor, but they seem to be doing pretty okay so. It certainly makes talking about China on a non-conceptual, non-state level a challenge, unless we discuss the Chinese zodiac or something, my sign is ox in retrograde and beyblade in anterograde