New Lionheart screenshot

Saint_Proverbius · Post by **Saint_Proverbius** » Wed Jul 31, 2002 8:45 am

<strong>[ -> N/A]</strong>

I just noticed over at <A href="http://rpgdot.com/">RPGDot</a> that there's a <a href="http://lionheart.blackisle.com/images/s ... g.jpg">new screenshot</a> of <a href="http://lionheart.blackisle.com/">Lionheart</a> at the official site. He's a tiny portion of it:<br><Br><div align="center"><a href="http://lionheart.blackisle.com/images/s ... .jpg"><img src="http://duckandcover.net/lionheart/screens/headshot.jpg" height="207" width="144"></a></div><br>So, you know what you're looking at? Hmmm?<br><br>Now how the hell do you reckon that works in <b>real time</b>?

Jimmyjay86 · Post by **Jimmyjay86** » Wed Jul 31, 2002 9:04 am

I would assume it is the same as in Tactics with "sentry mode aggressive". You pick your weapon, choose if you would like to target a specific area, and when an enemy is in range, it will automatically fire based on skill and perks criteria. It is very effective and you can override the settings at any time.

Red · Post by **Red** » Wed Jul 31, 2002 9:23 am

That is wrong in so many ways I just can't beleive how much I really hate RT...

Jimmyjay86 · Post by **Jimmyjay86** » Wed Jul 31, 2002 9:28 am

Why do you consider it wrong?

Red · Post by **Red** » Wed Jul 31, 2002 9:36 am

I don't want an RPG where choosing where I aim is like a neat feature which you'll end up never using because the interface is not appropriate.

"OK, so I want him to hit the head" *click aim* Oh crap! he already took his shot, oh well, next shot *click head* OK [wait until next shot is done], ok, well, ends up his aim's too low, I'll go for the legs instead *click aim* Aww shit, another shot gone by *click leg* OK, that works.... (continues fight until it's ended) Oh shit! I forgot I put the guy out of aim mode! And here I am killing people by bashing their already crippled legs!"

So well, maybe the "aim" option could stay on saving a couple of clicks and thus lowering the time needed (and thus misses), but you're still in a "you need to click at the right time" mode which I dispise.

So you can pause each turn? Oh dandy... but this is a RT game and I don't want it to pasue *go through tons of useless menus to toggle between pause and no pause mode*
OR
insta-pause... well, that's just the same as the first explample I gave except you need to pause all the time to do things...

All in all it doesn't work for me - not to mention in multiplayer games (even coop).

Jimmyjay86 · Post by **Jimmyjay86** » Wed Jul 31, 2002 9:47 am

With FOT you can over-ride that at any time. Generally the SMA(sentry mode aggressive) mode will kick in if there is a 50%(I believe) chance of hitting the target. You can click on the target to shoot if the % is below that and still have a chance to hit. And if the SMA targeting chooses one target to begin with, you can shift it to another target easily at any point during the process. Then it will continue shooting at the target that you have chosen. And then the actual chance of hitting is still by formula based on the same variables as in Fallout.

The method could be improved to allow you the option of choosing the first shot but for the most part, the map should be laid out in such a way that the automatic targeting would be similar to what you would chose anyway.

Red · Post by **Red** » Wed Jul 31, 2002 10:20 am

I know all that JJ, my point is that it's annoying (in RT and paused mode) to have to choose all this stuff, and most people probably dont use it - specially considering the penattie sit involves unless you have a rediculously high weapon skil. However in TB it's very usable and useful.

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Wed Jul 31, 2002 2:19 pm

Is there no chance that this game will have a turn based action system with action points?

VasikkA · Post by **VasikkA** » Wed Jul 31, 2002 4:01 pm

Nope, no chance Dan. I assume the combat system is continuous turn-based, that was used in FoT.

I must admit, the aiming system(if that's what it is) needs some tweaking. You gotta be very quick if you want to do aimed shots. Why is that box placed in a corner? Maybe some keyboard shortcuts like 'H' for headshot and 'L' for legs. That'd work better IMO.

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Wed Jul 31, 2002 5:41 pm

At least FOT had a turn based option which is the only reason I came close to the ending before uninstalling it.

Which is quite stupid if you come to think about it because FOT was a startegy game (maybe tactic) and not in anyway a RPG. So the people who liked it probably played it in CTB.

OnTheBounce · Post by **OnTheBounce** » Wed Jul 31, 2002 10:12 pm

Dan wrote:So the people who liked it probably played it in CTB.

I played it through 2-1/4 times before switching from STB to CTB. I thought it worked better in CTB, although no matter what mode you play in you're going to have to shift your tactics. I'm not an RTS player, either, nor an ADD-suffering twitch-based gamer who can't hack the RPGs because of the TB combat.

In Lionheart's case I see RT as a major flaw. Don't ask me why, but there just seems to be something inherently wrong w/Swords and Sorcery being played in RT, just like I loathed the S 'n' S FPS knock-offs. I would think that if you were playing a game where you are working solo, you'd want to micromanage your actions so that you can triumph over the superior numbers of enemies the designers are likely to throw at you.

OTB

Flamescreen · Post by **Flamescreen** » Wed Jul 31, 2002 10:59 pm

I consider myself a Crpg and TBstrategy games player and played-enjoyed FoT in TB(despite the time delay this causes). I don't like RT either, don't think it can be done to work properly(in fact one of the reasons to consider seeing others playing MOO3 when it ships, before buing). It's a wait and see issue. In the end, the buyer has the power to decide if a game will be succesfull, so I expect the developers to examine similar arguments.

Post by **DarkUnderlord** » Thu Aug 01, 2002 2:08 pm

VasikkA wrote:You gotta be very quick if you want to do aimed shots. Why is that box placed in a corner? Maybe some keyboard shortcuts like 'H' for headshot and 'L' for legs. That'd work better IMO.

No. That's what Arcanum has. It's wrong on so many levels. It removes the good ol' fun of slowly, very slowly, picking your weapon, choosing single shot, clicking on your victim, then getting to decided head, leg, groin, arms or eyes? Then, ever so slowly, clicking on your chosen body part.

In Arcanum, you just hold down "," for head, "." for arms and "/" for legs. It sucks. You end up holding down the button for about 5 shots and watching as you miss completely most of the time. In the end, you're actually better off not using it. I much prefer the interface way, not a keyboard shortcut.

VasikkA · Post by **VasikkA** » Thu Aug 01, 2002 4:13 pm

DarkUnderlord wrote:No. That's what Arcanum has. It's wrong on so many levels. It removes the good ol' fun of slowly, very slowly, picking your weapon, choosing single shot, clicking on your victim, then getting to decided head, leg, groin, arms or eyes? Then, ever so slowly, clicking on your chosen body part.

In Arcanum, you just hold down "," for head, "." for arms and "/" for legs. It sucks. You end up holding down the button for about 5 shots and watching as you miss completely most of the time. In the end, you're actually better off not using it. I much prefer the interface way, not a keyboard shortcut.

Well, the fact that Lionheart is real-time eliminates the pleasure of shooting someone in the eyes, slowly, very slowly. You can perform aimed shots without hurry in turn-based games, Fallout and JA.

I must admit, the Arcanum system is flawed, but that doesn't mean it could be done better. Clicking on a keyboard shortcut and then clicking on a target performs a headshot, if you have a decent weapon skill you wont miss. Simple and effective, eh?

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Thu Aug 01, 2002 8:04 pm

DarkUnderlord wrote:
No. That's what Arcanum has. It's wrong on so many levels. It removes the good ol' fun of slowly, very slowly, picking your weapon, choosing single shot, clicking on your victim, then getting to decided head, leg, groin, arms or eyes? Then, ever so slowly, clicking on your chosen body part.

In Arcanum, you just hold down "," for head, "." for arms and "/" for legs. It sucks. You end up holding down the button for about 5 shots and watching as you miss completely most of the time. In the end, you're actually better off not using it. I much prefer the interface way, not a keyboard shortcut.

In Arcanum I never used the called shots option because of all these reasons.
But I played it in TB.

Yes, it does take the fun from slowly aiming your weapon at your enemy but considering Lionheart will be RT this "fun" wont fit the combat system.

The arcanum aiming system (which I hate) is more suitable to Lionheart then the Fallout system (which is execllent).

Saint_Proverbius · Post by **Saint_Proverbius** » Fri Aug 02, 2002 12:18 am

VasikkA wrote:Well, the fact that Lionheart is real-time eliminates the pleasure of shooting someone in the eyes, slowly, very slowly. You can perform aimed shots without hurry in turn-based games, Fallout and JA.

That really is a good point. Because you're constantly fighting, a headshot really isn't that interesting because it's just one right after another in a rapid fashion - and most likely, you're going to be missing most of those shots.

In TB, you can judge wether or not aiming is worth trying, and you get feedback on it right away. With real time, you can't really size up the situation when you do it, and the feedback off the successful hit is either not given or one of those floating text deals which aren't that great either.

Cabal · Post by **Cabal** » Sun Aug 04, 2002 2:44 am

With the target paperdoll, you can select which area you want to aim for if you would like to go for a critical hit. You don't have to keep clicking on this, it will continue aiming for that area until you get a hit. Changing the target area will be as simple as clicking on one of the mapped num pad keys or clicking on target doll.

If you score a crit in the head for instance, you may be able to blind the enemy. If you crit in the legs, you might knock the enemy down or slow down their movement rate. So there are various effects that crits can do and will be very effective in real time combat.

Rex Exitium · Post by **Rex Exitium** » Sun Aug 04, 2002 3:58 am

There ya go!

Red · Post by **Red** » Sun Aug 04, 2002 7:11 am

I know all that, my point is that instead of "choosing your target" you "time your hits"... I hate that feeling.

Post by **DarkUnderlord** » Mon Aug 05, 2002 7:35 am

Cabal wrote:With the target paperdoll, you can select which area you want to aim for if you would like to go for a critical hit. You don't have to keep clicking on this, it will continue aiming for that area until you get a hit. Changing the target area will be as simple as clicking on one of the mapped num pad keys or clicking on target doll.

So if I want to fire my first shot in his head to blind him, the second in his leg to cripple him so he can't run away and the third in his right arm to make him drop his weapon, I'd have to either hit three keys in very quick succession or click three different parts of that picture very quickly, right?