Critters in FO3

[FireWolf]

They're not immortal, they just have extended lifetimes because their bodies dont wear out as quickly and due to some nifty genetic engineering.

Ghouls seem to "live" for extremely long times, sure, bits fall off them all the time but I'm sure that's nothing a stapler won't fix.

[VasikkA]

Yes, Set and most of the ghouls in Necropolis were hostile and despised us normals. But basically, ghouls are human beings, of some sort, so I assume most ghouls are somewhat neutral to pure humans. That means they don't actually like us but they wont attack guns blazing, either. They have become different but carry the same origin as humans. I see it more like racism, from both sides. Vault City -> Gecko is a good example.

I also think super mutants react more kindly to ghouls as humans. Although the ghouls in Necropolis were wiped out, the mutants at the watershed weren't hostile towards ghouls as to humans. Maybe they feel some sympathy for eachother, for being altered humans??

S_P is right, Broken Hills felt kinda lame because humans and super mutants don't mix. That is against the very basic principles of the original Fallout. I'd rather have them as bad guys again in Fallout 3.

[Constipated BladeRunner]

Incorrect.
Mutants are immortal unless killied.
Look in the Glow.
FEV makes things immortal. End of story.
I agree that Broken hills did feel kind of lame.
Also, I know this is off topic, but how does everyone know that Marcus is Ian?

[Megatron]

I think by FO3 some ghouls should start to turn into puddles of green stuff, but it still talks (like 'The hunger') or some parts of them have been replaced with 'fresh' human parts (mabye they peeled the skin off a human and nailed it to their face)

Ghouls ARE deformed. They have eyes sealed, bulging eye-balls, heads weird shapes and other stuff. They look a bit like a warped tree with green and red paint thrown at it, then a poached egg stuck in the middle of where its head should be.

If there are going to be any ghoulites they should have rubbery skin stretched(like burn victims that have healed up) and a weird bone structure. And mabye give them no nose.

Super mutants probably reacted more kindly to ghouls because they hated humans to, mabye.

[OnTheBounce]

I'd rather have Supermutants more like they were in Fallout. They were hostile and had a sense of superiority to humans. Mutants in Fallout 2's Broken Hills just seemed unnaturally nice given what they are.

It's quirky that they were on the whole, "We're better than you" kick in Fallout, then nice guys living with humans in Fallout 2. Meanwhile, most of the humans in Fallout were still mistrusting of ghouls and mutants. Broken Hills just seemed like they wanted supermutants to be more humane than humans.

Yes, I have to agree that they assimilated all too quickly in Broken Hills. I think a better approach would have been to have a mutant community (SMs and Ghouls) w/only a few humans living in it that were only kept around because they were useful in dealing w/the outside world, for instance Chad the caravan master.

The mutant-hating humans were so badly done that they were really nothing more than a bad caracature of a whacked-out '60s cult like Chuck Manson's. They did everything to say, "These are bad guys," except mounting garishly colored neon signs over them. I'll take my milieu w/two helpings of moral ambiguity instead, TYVM.

If they wanted to humanize the mutants, they should have factored in that sense of superiority. Ever seen the original series of Planet of the Apes movies? Broken Hills should have been similar in nature to how the civilization was in the last installment of that series. Ape and man lived together, but apes ran the show, and there were different laws for man than ape. For example, a man couldn't say the word, "No" to an ape.

Yes, that would have worked all right. The "good guy" approach could have been more about gaining the trust of the mutants and having them open their community a bit to the outside world as well as having Smoothies/Normies get out of the second-class citizen rut.

Set was pretty hostile, as were all the topsider ghouls.

In Fallout, there were several REs with ghouls being raiders and the like.

I should have been a bit more specific. The problem w/Set is that while he doesn't like Normies, his faction is pretty damned weak. He's in such a bind that he's willing to let a Normie stroll in and do his dirtry work for him. (I like his hard-bitten attitude toward your killing his underlings, though. ) It's essential to the plot, so I wouldn't call it a "problem" w/FO, but if this were to be used again, I'd like to see it done differently.

For instance, in my current game of FO I was clad in Combat Armor and weilding a .223 Pistol by the time I got to Necropolis and that isn't hard to do, especially if you follow the game more-or-less logically. The ghouls didn't stand a chance. They were basically just so much cannon fodder. It got to the point where I would skirt around groups of Ghouls not just to avoid combat, but because I found myself feeling sorry for them.

Rather than this, I would like to see a faction of Ghouls arise that's smart enough to play to their own strengths and their enemies' weaknesses. Can't fight toe-to-toe? Not a problem! Sit back and snipe them as they come through your town. Set traps up. Make sure they get caught in cross-fires, etc. Any opponent can be dangerous under the right circumstances. Ghouls could easily prove that they are no exception to this. A group like this could easily interrupt trade and force the local factions into wanting them "dealt with" when one-too-many caravans is caught in ambush laid waste to.

Hell, maybe you could even throw in a group of SMs there were being picked on by the Ghouls and weren't bright enough to fight them, so they need your help.

OTB

[Nirvana]

Ghouls would make great nomad people , high resistance to radiation
excelent perception ...
Imagine traveling the wastes and finding a caravan of ghouls ...

[Doyle]

Incorrect.
Mutants are immortal unless killied.
Look in the Glow.
FEV makes things immortal. End of story.
I agree that Broken hills did feel kind of lame.
Also, I know this is off topic, but how does everyone know that Marcus is Ian?

So much of what Zax has said has come under question recently. Why would this be any different?

[Flamescreen]

Yes, I have to agree that they assimilated all too quickly in Broken Hills. I think a better approach would have been to have a mutant community (SMs and Ghouls) w/only a few humans living in it that were only kept around because they were useful in dealing w/the outside world, for instance Chad the caravan master.

Regarding this, perhaps "normal" humans would be needed only for possible commerse relationships with the rest of the world. I'm assuming that any city/town/whatever would want some trade-would have something to trade, and normal humans would be more focused on it, than ghouls or SMutants.

Rather than this, I would like to see a faction of Ghouls arise that's smart enough to play to their own strengths and their enemies' weaknesses. Can't fight toe-to-toe? Not a problem! Sit back and snipe them as they come through your town. Set traps up. Make sure they get caught in cross-fires, etc. Any opponent can be dangerous under the right circumstances. Ghouls could easily prove that they are no exception to this. A group like this could easily interrupt trade and force the local factions into wanting them "dealt with" when one-too-many caravans is caught in ambush laid waste to.

Fairly logical. I'm surprised we didn't see that already, as despite their mutation Ghouls are still humans one way or the other, and humans tend to do that. Also it should be more so over the years, as news of that would spread and other factions would adopt such methods of defence.

[VasikkA]

Ghouls are not dumb, whatever they may look like.

Rather than this, I would like to see a faction of Ghouls arise that's smart enough to play to their own strengths and their enemies' weaknesses. Can't fight toe-to-toe? Not a problem! Sit back and snipe them as they come through your town. Set traps up. Make sure they get caught in cross-fires, etc. Any opponent can be dangerous under the right circumstances. Ghouls could easily prove that they are no exception to this. A group like this could easily interrupt trade and force the local factions into wanting them "dealt with" when one-too-many caravans is caught in ambush laid waste to.

I like this idea. They aren't good at melee/HtH so why not try to out-wit the enemy. They can't just stand and watch while things go bad for them. A ghoul with a sawed shotgun is a classic sight, like the ghouls guarding the nuclear reactor in Gecko. For the player, a militaristic ghoul faction could well be made tough, at least tougher than in previous Fallouts, where they basically didn't offer much more challenge than rats. Traps, ambushes, snipers, masters of camouflage etc.. could well be the characteristics for this kind of faction. A ghoul mutiny may well spice up the plot in Fallout 3.

[FireWolf]

easy to spot a ghoul. follow your nose.

[Megatron]

Ghouls could be pretty dangerous. Deathclaws to.

Mabye in fallout 3 humans are turned into slaves by a mutant faction?

[VasikkA]

Turning them into mutants is nastier. :twisted:

[Mr. Zealot]

Or they could harvest them for food. Soylent Green, anybody?

[FireWolf]

perhaps giant evil sheep could attack humans... no wait that's fallout tactics (read deathclaws)