The Stevie D dumb-ass thread

[Stevie D]

Folks,

It's been a long while since I fired up the editor, and I know for a fact that there were massive gaps in my knowledge even then.

If it's OK with the Maps 'n' Mods moderators (lol) I'd like to keep this thread just for my ham-fisted queries and meanderings, so's I don't have to crack open a new thread for every question I have for the modding magnates.

Question the First:

Here's a quote from the FOT v. 1.27 editor readme:

To construct a campaign, it is recommended that you work within a different folder to core. Create a new directory in the same location as core. Then when you run your tools, use the -path command line option.

Create a new directory in the same location as Core? Does that mean WITHIN the Core folder, ie:

C:\Program Files\Games\Fallout Tactics\core

Or does it mean create the new campaign folder in the SAME path as the Core folder is in, ie:

C:\Program Files\Games\Fallout Tactics

Question the second:

Can someone please shed some light on how the -path command actually works? Does it search every single folder and file within the FOT root folder, or just those at the 'top level', so to speak.

Thanks for your help; I can only promise more feckless questions, I'm afeared.

Steve

[Jimmyjay86]

Check the part of the Enhanced Readme under the Campaign Editor section called Directory Structure. I added a few things to the original readme to clear some things up.

That is about all I know of it.

[Stevie D]

Check the part of the Enhanced Readme under the Campaign Editor section called Directory Structure. I added a few things to the original readme to clear some things up.

That is about all I know of it.

Hey, this enhanced readme is news to me... nice one, Jim.

Is it me, or is this page not linked from the FoT Tutorials Section? One for OTB to look into, perhaps?

Steve

[Jimmyjay86]

Check the sticky at the top of forum here! It has the rest of my tutorials linked too.

[Max-Violence]

The -path thing can be quite confusing - at first.

Basically, you're custom campaign folder should look like this:

C:\XXX\Fallout Tactics\StevieD\

Its as if you replaced "core" with "StevieD"

Another way to look at it is "core" being the normal game, the one made by MF, the "core" singleplayer game. Therefore, "StevieD" would be your custom campaign, just like "Max-V" and (eventually) "OTB" would be other custom campaigns.

If you're only making SP missions and not campaigns, I recommend you stay far, far away from the -path thing. Less headaches

[Stevie D]

Check the sticky at the top of forum here! It has the rest of my tutorials linked too.

Dagnamit, I missed the link the first time round. For some reason, it was the same colour as the forum text, so I couldn't 'see' it.

Hotdamn that's a handsome lookin' tutorial, though! That FOT Speech tree tutorial looks like it's worth it's weight in gold, alone.

Max,

Thanks, dude, as it happens, I think I'm only going to have enough impetus for one mission... although I'm not ruling anything out for the future.

I will be creating custom characters and entities, though... I take it they can just be whacked into the correct folders within the core path... but whilst I follow this train of thought, won't I need to alter the game's 'campaign.txt' as per Armaani's tutorial, if I want to make pre-set player characters?

Thanks for your help, gents

Steve

PS: Jimmy, this enhanced tutorial looks DANGEROUSLY good

[Stevie D]

Is there somoe sort of 'purge entities' function in the editor?

I was farting about with some tiles a few minutes ago, then scrolled back over the map and found all my entities were gone. Good job I've got a very recent back-up (in which the entities are still present) or I'd be weeping.

Steve

[Max-Violence]

Well, you might've opened the map up in Tiles Only, but you say you "scrolled back over" and the ents were gone... ... haven't had that happen to me. Although, if you changed the height level marker about 6 or so levels below the entities, the ents'll pop and it'll just look like they vanished

There's a "Delete Entities" function: Edit -> Delete Entities, but I don't think there's a keyboard shotcut for it... nor should there be :mrgreen:

Pre-made characters (aka prefabs) are only used for campaigns, really. However, if you want to have 'em in a single mission, yes, you'd have to fiddle with campaign.txt or save your prefabs as prefab1.ent to prefab5.ent. Doing so will overwrite the existing prefab (i.e. Snake, Betty, Peter, etc.), but you won't have to fiddle with the campaign.txt, and that's a good thing, since you'd have to distribute the campaign.txt along with your map n' ents, and the campaign.txt is quite large (19 megs, IIRC).

[Stevie D]

Thanks kindly, Max, I suppose I must have rolled over Delete Entities and accidentally selected it! :roll:

A couple more questions for you gents, if you have a few minutes in-between tile-juggling sessions:

* How does the... I don't know what it's called... I call it the 'snap-to' function, work? It's the function which is hot-key linked to the standard number-keys... you know the one, it forces the tile-placement cursor to adhere to different 'resolutions' of the map's grid make-up.

I'd like to use it for floor-tile placement, but I can't seem to find a number which will force the placement cursor into alignment with the tiles I've already placed. I'm hoping I won't have to shift the tiles I've already put down into alignment with the default 'snap-to' set-up. :o

* I'm trying to make a Petrol (or Gas, as you say on the other side of the pond ) Station in my map. I've found the mission specific 'Shell' sign-post, but can anyone remember a petrol-pump tile, off hand?

* Me and my clumsy meddling... I was mapping away like a good 'un the other day, and... no, I haven't deleted my ents again but now all the areas outside of the yellow level-boundary line are tinted green. I'm not particularly bothered by it, but I'd like to know how I did it, all the same, and how I could toggle it off again.

Jimmy,

I was leafing through your fine enhanced readme, and in your Making Ladders section (to which the anchor link doesn't work, BTW), I thought it might be an idea to change this segment:

5. Go to the "Select" field at the top and while holding down the shift key, left click each segment and Page-Up to click the next segment. Do this for the whole ladder and the bounding box will have a blue tint to it.

To this:

5. Go to the "Select" field at the top and while holding down the alt key, left click on any one of the segments, which will select every tile above and below your cursor. Your ladder's bounding box will have a blue tint to it.

...not that I'm knocking your fine work, dude, I just thought that would be a good point to introduce the Alt-LMB feature.

Regards,

Steve

[Max-Violence]

* How does the... I don't know what it's called... I call it the 'snap-to' function, work? It's the function which is hot-key linked to the standard number-keys... you know the one, it forces the tile-placement cursor to adhere to different 'resolutions' of the map's grid make-up.

I'd like to use it for floor-tile placement, but I can't seem to find a number which will force the placement cursor into alignment with the tiles I've already placed. I'm hoping I won't have to shift the tiles I've already put down into alignment with the default 'snap-to' set-up. :o

6 is the best setting for floor files - all floor tiles (might be a few exceptions) are 6x6 world units in size, so setting your "grid res" to 6 would make the floor tiles fit exactly with other floor tiles.

The best way to use this feature is to lay your first floor tiles using the feature That way, you know the tiles are aligned properly.

* I'm trying to make a Petrol (or Gas, as you say on the other side of the pond ) Station in my map. I've found the mission specific 'Shell' sign-post, but can anyone remember a petrol-pump tile, off hand?

Not off-hand... IIRC JJ86 knows where they are

* Me and my clumsy meddling... I was mapping away like a good 'un the other day, and... no, I haven't deleted my ents again but now all the areas outside of the yellow level-boundary line are tinted green. I'm not particularly bothered by it, but I'd like to know how I did it, all the same, and how I could toggle it off again.

Heh... *cough* yea, you hit Ctrl+B by accident... and if you've saved the map since, you're stuck with the green tiles.

Basically, Ctrl+B makes all tiles outside the camera bounds flagged as "Exit" tiles. The only way to undo that is to select the tiles and hit Tools -> Not Exit. Very time-consuming if you have a big map with multiple levels... (like I do...).

I hit Ctrl+B instead of Ctrl+V once, and I didn't like it, so I just clicked Edit -> Undo and saved it. When I tried to open the map back up, the editor would crash (i.e. the map was dead). That's what I mean when I say, "you're stuck with the green tiles."

[Stevie D]

6 is the best setting for floor files - all floor tiles (might be a few exceptions) are 6x6 world units in size, so setting your "grid res" to 6 would make the floor tiles fit exactly with other floor tiles.

The best way to use this feature is to lay your first floor tiles using the feature That way, you know the tiles are aligned properly.

Right, thanks, it might not be too late to Ctrl-A the lot and mass shift it.

* I'm trying to make a Petrol (or Gas, as you say on the other side of the pond ) Station in my map. I've found the mission specific 'Shell' sign-post, but can anyone remember a petrol-pump tile, off hand?

Not off-hand... IIRC JJ86 knows where they are

Ah ha! So they do exist at least! I'll wait until Jimbo replies before I work on the garage, then.

Heh... *cough* yea, you hit Ctrl+B by accident... and if you've saved the map since, you're stuck with the green tiles.

Basically, Ctrl+B makes all tiles outside the camera bounds flagged as "Exit" tiles. The only way to undo that is to select the tiles and hit Tools -> Not Exit. Very time-consuming if you have a big map with multiple levels... (like I do...).

OK... hmm, seems like a pretty daft place to put a hot-key like that, considering it's right next to the 'paste' set-up... still...

I hit Ctrl+B instead of Ctrl+V once, and I didn't like it, so I just clicked Edit -> Undo and saved it. When I tried to open the map back up, the editor would crash (i.e. the map was dead). That's what I mean when I say, "you're stuck with the green tiles."

Shit! The joys of multiple back-ups, eh?

Thanks again for your continued support, MV,

Steve

[OnTheBounce]

* I'm trying to make a Petrol (or Gas, as you say on the other side of the pond ) Station in my map. I've found the mission specific 'Shell' sign-post, but can anyone remember a petrol-pump tile, off hand?

Not off-hand... IIRC JJ86 knows where they are

Ah ha! So they do exist at least! I'll wait until Jimbo replies before I work on the garage, then.

Sorry to disappoint, but there are no such tiles and IMHO it's a major oversight. The closest you will find is the air and water pump, which is located :

C:\Program Files\14 Degrees East\Fallout Tactics\core\tiles\Ruined City\Ruined city objects\Machines

If you want to see what they look like, look in Z15.mis (the Gas Station SRE) and take a peep.

BTW, the Ctrl + B hotkey is indeed one of the most annoying features of the level editor. I've got a map w/scads and scads of multi-story buildings, some of which overlap the camera boundary, that are tinted green right now. Some day I'll have to sit around for 20-40 minutes waiting for the editor to select all of the tiles and then unflag the tiles...

OTB

[Stevie D]

Oh well, that's saved me a wait, at least, OTB, thanks. Jury-rigged petrol-pump graphics it is, then.

And yeah, as both you and MV diagnosed, I must have accidentally dabbed the 'B' key when I was doing a cut 'n' paste operation. Luckily, I've been expanding my level-borders as I've been going, so the 'damage' wasn't too bad...

Talking of the Ctrl-B 'glitch', do you know if Interplay/Microforte/14 Degrees/Whatever have got any plans to improve upon, or polish the existing editor at all?

I'd like an improved tile-selection routine... one where all the tiles of a similar type don't have a habit of getting clumped together when you drag and drop a load.

Is there a 'sequential select' option I don't know about? One where I could place a series of tiles so that they would increment from one to the next in the same order as I had selected them? (Ideal for walls with sequential decay patterns, etc.)

Also, a couple more questions, if you'd be so kind:

* I've got in mind a few one-off set-piece encounters with various unpleasant characters, and what I'd like to know is if you turn nasty on one member of a team ('team' as in game-mechanic term), do all the other members of that team turn against you, even if they have no line-of-sight to the fight? (eg: they're on the other side of the map). What I'm trying to say is: if I've got one baddie who I want to act independantly from everyone else on the map, do I need an entire team allocated to him?

* Pink Tiles. I've seen 'em when I've fired up a few of the maps from the original single-player campaign in the editor, but what do they do? Or am I just showing up the fact that I haven't read the tutorial cover-to-cover, yet?

Steve

[Red]

MF doesn't plan on any more patches. There's no money in doing that it seems.

For tiles, use shift-click to select multiple tiles (creating a tileset) and then when you click it'll autmaticallt choose another random tile in the "Set" you've created.

Pink tiles are in fact invisible (well they're marked that way). They're mostly use to create proper occlusion data: ie, if you want the player to be able to see inside a building before he actually reaches the door, put some pink (invisible) tiles in front of it to create an area where the roof needs to be removed... You can toggle invisible tiles on/off in the editor (since you need to see them to place them...)

[Stevie D]

MF doesn't plan on any more patches. There's no money in doing that it seems.

Gits. You don't have any plans to get your hands dirty on the editor engine, by any chance?

For tiles, use shift-click to select multiple tiles (creating a tileset) and then when you click it'll autmaticallt choose another random tile in the "Set" you've created.

Sorry, Red, I wasn't very specific. I was trying to describe the problems I am having with the Shift 'n' multi-select system already. I don't like the way that it splurges out tiles in it's bastardised interpretation of 'randomness'; is there a method whereby we can mass-select tiles in the sequence we wish them to place them in?

Pink tiles are in fact invisible (well they're marked that way). They're mostly use to create proper occlusion data: ie, if you want the player to be able to see inside a building before he actually reaches the door, put some pink (invisible) tiles in front of it to create an area where the roof needs to be removed... You can toggle invisible tiles on/off in the editor (since you need to see them to place them...)

Great, thanks.

Steve

[Red]

I was trying to describe the problems I am having with the Shift 'n' multi-select system already. I don't like the way that it splurges out tiles in it's bastardised interpretation of 'randomness'; is there a method whereby we can mass-select tiles in the sequence we wish them to place them in?

Well, what I like to do is select all the needed tiles, save the tileset, then load it in a text edtior, fix it up so it can be loaded (by adding quotes to every line but the first) and finally copy-pasting the tiles I want in a greater ratio... say I have tile0 to tile9 and I want 20% of tile0, then I copy-paste the whole set 8 times and the tile0 9 times... Save, then load it back into the map editor. I usually make a bunch of "sets" with the basic one and name them appropriatly (like say 70pcDesert, 50pcDesert 30pcDesert)

A good idea when making sets too is to test them out while having the editor in windowed mode so you can get a proper ratio... sometimes the ratios don't look good, or some times don't fit well with the others... so you can test all that on the fly, save it to disk, load it in the editor... repeat...

[Stevie D]

Well, what I like to do is select all the needed tiles, save the tileset, then load it in a text edtior, fix it up so it can be loaded (by adding quotes to every line but the first) and finally copy-pasting the tiles I want in a greater ratio... say I have tile0 to tile9 and I want 20% of tile0, then I copy-paste the whole set 8 times and the tile0 9 times... Save, then load it back into the map editor. I usually make a bunch of "sets" with the basic one and name them appropriatly (like say 70pcDesert, 50pcDesert 30pcDesert)

A good idea when making sets too is to test them out while having the editor in windowed mode so you can get a proper ratio... sometimes the ratios don't look good, or some times don't fit well with the others... so you can test all that on the fly, save it to disk, load it in the editor... repeat...

Quality tips, Red. Could you refresh my memory on how to open the editor up in windowed mode, please?

Steve

[Flamescreen]

just add "-w"(without quotes) to the shortcut.

[Red]

I always find it weird how I know so all these nifty tricks about the editor and have yet to make a map for it...

[Flamescreen]

Never too late to start...