RPGDot SPECIAL article #2!

Saint_Proverbius · Post by **Saint_Proverbius** » Tue Aug 13, 2002 7:24 am

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The gang at <a href="http://rpgdot.com/">RPGDot</a> has posted <a href="http://www.rpgdot.com/index.php?hsactio ... 4">Article #2</a> about the use of SPECIAL in <a href="http://lionheart.blackisle.com/">Lionheart</a>. While this isn't a complete list of skills, but it offers the ones that currently work in the game, and how levelling up affects them. Here's a taste:<blockquote>Every time you go up a level, you gain a set number of Skill Points to spend on your skills, thus increasing the ability of your character. How many Skill Points you get is based on the Intelligence of your character, making Intelligence a very valuable Attribute to have.When you start the game, each Skill Point will increase the skill by 1. As you get better in a skill, it becomes harder to actually get better. After you have attained a Skill of 50 in anything the cost to progress doubles, costing you two Skill Points per point of Skill. At a Skill of 100, it begins to cost 5 Skill Points to increase a skill by just 1 point.</blockquote>STEEP! I pity the Low Int fool who tries to get skilled!This was spotted at <a href="http://bluesnews.com">Blue's</a>.

Rosh · Post by **Rosh** » Tue Aug 13, 2002 7:27 am

Simple equasion:

INT < 10 = FUCKED.

Saint_Proverbius · Post by **Saint_Proverbius** » Tue Aug 13, 2002 7:35 am

That's what they're thinking it should be now. Hopefully they'll up the "2 SP = 1%" thing to at least 75%.

HanoverF · Post by **HanoverF** » Tue Aug 13, 2002 10:07 am

Yoikes, you could barely scratch your ass in Fallout with a skill under 50% 8O

Spazmo · Post by **Spazmo** » Tue Aug 13, 2002 10:16 am

Methinks a lot of people are going to miss out on a lot of dialog threads.

Deathy · Post by **Deathy** » Tue Aug 13, 2002 1:11 pm

(For all you Fallout fans who are asking 'Where are the dialogue skills?' we removed them in favor of using just attributes like Charisma and Intelligence combined with certain Perks like Outwit. Because of the fantasy setting and the action emphasis of Lionheart, the knowledge type skills were removed and replaced with the wide range of magic spells.)

I think that removal of the speech skill is a sign that the game will be totally combat orientated, even more so than NWN.
It is obvious why they have removed the speech skill, and understandable, since a combat orientated game would have little use for it.

However, it marks this game as a Diablo clone using the SPECIAL system, if that wasn't already frightfully obvious before.
Whether this is a good, or a bad thing is debateable, and can really only be decided when we get our hands on the game.

Rex Exitium · Post by **Rex Exitium** » Tue Aug 13, 2002 1:48 pm

Well, I don't know what good "science" and "repair" would be in a combat oriented game, anyway. Heh.

Let's hope it works out.

VasikkA · Post by **VasikkA** » Tue Aug 13, 2002 7:57 pm

I think the different character attributes should affect how much you can improve skills, not just intelligence. For example, if there's a 'longbow' skill and you have a high perception, you can use your skill points more efficiently, 1% increase costing 1 skill point instead of 2 or even 3 SPs if you have a low perception. I think this would work, because using 3 skill points for 1% increase is a waste and would make the other attributes than intelligence more important. This would also make balancing your attributes more fun.

And I hope there's no 'Gifted' trait, or if there is you should get 4 extra attribute points instead of 7, which is too much.

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Tue Aug 13, 2002 10:02 pm

VasikkA wrote:I think the different character attributes should affect how much you can improve skills, not just intelligence. For example, if there's a 'longbow' skill and you have a high perception, you can use your skill points more efficiently, 1% increase costing 1 skill point instead of 2 or even 3 SPs if you have a low perception. I think this would work, because using 3 skill points for 1% increase is a waste and would make the other attributes than intelligence more important. This would also make balancing your attributes more fun.

This is a good idea.

Another way of balancing your attributes might be skill restrications. If there's a longbow skill then you need 6 perception to get above 50 and 8 to get above 80m, this way if you take 10 INT it won't help you too much as you can't raise your skills so high without other attributes. You will need a combination of both INT and skill requiered attributes.

I wonder why they lowered the skills so that 75% is considered "good", maybe so it will be easier to play this game for people who can't figure out stuff like "leveling" and "charecter" that are not connected to combat.

HanoverF · Post by **HanoverF** » Tue Aug 13, 2002 10:08 pm

I think that removal of the speech skill is a sign that the game will be totally combat orientated, even more so than NWN.
It is obvious why they have removed the speech skill, and understandable, since a combat orientated game would have little use for it.

However, it marks this game as a Diablo clone using the SPECIAL system, if that wasn't already frightfully obvious before.
Whether this is a good, or a bad thing is debateable, and can really only be decided when we get our hands on the game.

You're probably right, But considering the extortion for raising skills, maybe they thought needing a good speech on top of higher CHA was sucking up too many skill points...

Nah

Would it be feasible that whatever your highest attribute was, that determined your skill points, but you would get a 1-1 rate for skills that used that stat, and a worse rate 2-1, 3-1 for skills that didn't? Skills would probably have to reworked (AGI playes a role in all but two skills mentioned in the article). Seems better then making skill points dependent on INT.

Saint_Proverbius · Post by **Saint_Proverbius** » Tue Aug 13, 2002 11:32 pm

Deathy wrote:I think that removal of the speech skill is a sign that the game will be totally combat orientated, even more so than NWN.
It is obvious why they have removed the speech skill, and understandable, since a combat orientated game would have little use for it.

Argh.. It's totally fouled that they removed the speech skill. That places way too much emphasis on Attributes if you want to be a talky character. In SPECIAL, you have the ability to overcome your deficient Attributes if you chose to do so. You could play a low Perception sniper character and still make good with a higher Small Arms skill, for example.

Making Speech in to a few Perks is even worse. Not only are you forced in to a ridgid system of having to have both a high Charisma and high Intelligence, but now you have to burn Perks in order to speak well?

Given the ratio on raising skills, I'd say most people will be dumping character points in to Intelligence anyway, so will everyone be a "talky" character with that system?

Sheesh. Talking about a kiltered balance.

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Wed Aug 14, 2002 1:18 am

It's sad but this game isn't going to be a good rpg.

I mean it won't have any of the qualities that makes the difference between a RPG like Fallout and an RPG like, say, Diablo.

Yes, it is better then Diablo in many cases (sneaking, some talking) but i'm not expacting too much of it.

The lack of speech doesn't surprise me, but the fact there is speech, even if it is based on a main attribute, encrouge me to play it.