Metal Armor Preview...

[Ed the Monkey]

*EDIT* check page 2 for a link to the newest version and an explaination... I'm a cheeting bastard...hehee *EDIT*

this is a preview in the most ultimate way of metal armor and how the stage described by Section8 seems to function. First remember that this is the second model I've ever built (the first was a barrel witha minigun sticking out done mostly from tutorial). Second this is a preview in the most ultimate way. I added biped to it but i never really took the time to apply it properly (because, once again... this is only a preview), thus there are some things in the wrong places, bent in the wrong ways...etc...

now... what would you like to see changed (besides the obvious), what works... what doesn't ? From the look of things i'm not sure that I've configured the light correctly, sobesides that...
also keep in mind that this is a low poly render.... so don't expect anything really impressive, and it's also the first draft.


(ok... the one on the bottom was the real first render... but this isn't too far away. I intend to beef up the arms, shorten the fore-arms... they seem to be too long...and stab somone in the head... uh... well everything except the last one anyway...)

[Senor Deluxe]

Wow!
That´s great work. You really started something big, I don´t envy you! Maybe things could be made a little easier if you try to use Poser. I don´t know, if you know this program, it offers a good library of human anatomy, complete with standard animations (like walking, running, and so on). You could pick a model, export it to 3DStudioMax, model the armor, export just the armor back in Poser and animate everything there. I don´t know however how exporting the animation would work, which you´d have to do, because rendering in Poser REALLY sucks.
Maybe this whole idea is stupid, but I think at least it´s worth a try.

[Ed the Monkey]

acutally it's not bad at all.... I have a biped which is sopposed to do that, but it doesn't really work that way... I don't know if i could export the model, but wtf...i'll give it a shot...

[Flamescreen]

Not bad at all, I like it so far. You intend to replace the metal armor of FoT or make a new humanoid for it, which would probably require less effort?

[Red]

Increase Poly Count!

See, the whole thing about pre-renders is that you can use as many polies as you want to make it pretty... So there's absolutely no excuse for a model to have a low pol count - except well, you being lazy

[Flamescreen]

Also you might want to ask Section8 about the method they used to change colors for sprites in the Entity editor, I think you're supposed to include it with the sprites somehow.

[Jimmyjay86]

For the required size of the final sprite, I'd say that looks very good. I doubt if an increase in the poly-count will make much more of a difference at that scale.

[Red]

You're right about that, however with increased polies it's easyer to toy around and create inperfections in the model... Bulging muscles for example.

Course a working model is only half the work, as its just as hard to animate a model if not harder! Creating realistic movement is really hard, thankfully the small size of the model makes it somewhat easyer...

[Ed the Monkey]

1)lazy...
2)not a great modeller
3) working on a 600mhz with 128 ram....

an increase in poly count acutally will make a bit of diffrence...the face just needs a little shaping and it's done... the eyes are unneccicary...I think i'll extend the Skullcap and see if i can make the camo sho up more...but... i don't think that'll happen... I do think I'll change the color of the camo to greyscale though. Another option was to make a new type of raider and put spiked hair instead of that hair.... I could make a series of diffrent models, animate them and such, then add a few diffrences and come out with like a few entirely new set... Like spiked hair raiders set or whatever the fuck...
I think I could add more detail... but I'm not sure what to add... that's basically what the old metal armor looked like (with a few minor modifications)... I guess I could add something like shinguards with spikes on them to the legs. I think the major problem with this character is his posture... it doesn't match the in-game poster of the other characters.
If you look closely at the sprites, this character's chest is too far forward... i'd like to increse the chest size so the brestplate sticks out a bit more... his legs also need to be bent slightly. they also arn't far enough around. I'm thinking about building armor on them, although the original sprite only had pants, no armor on the legs. I might also reshape the shoulder guards a bit... add a hemisphere to make them more bulbus and warp them a bit, but the original sprite wasn't done that way.
I'm thinking spiked shinguards...
I just remembered one thing that the old sprite also had... there was an arm band on the same side as the spikes... should I throw some spikes on the back of that, or make it smooth as the original was?
as far as the mapping goes... I'd like to add in some things like...I dunno... bulletholes done in photoshop....
If you look at the armor sprite, not the character sprite, in fo2, you'll realize there's a "nipple ring" on the side opposite the spikes... that's another option. If someone is a good painter and would like to work on a texture map from my metal map feel free. I rather like this particular metal texture, but If you think I should change it, I might. I'm not sure it works at such a level. Aslo I was rather annoyed to find that the camo didn't seem to work, but it might, i suppose, if i shirnk it down quite a bit. If anyone can draw Ice or Urban cammo really wel, i'd like to map it on.... The camo of the skullcap in the bigger picture is acutally from a shirt I own. I must say though, I am happy with how the spikes, and the chest/ab plate turned out in the frontview.
I will also be using better hands... In one of my other beta versions I included gloves... which I'd like to have in the final version.
He's also not well mapped...I was thinking about not making haircolor an option and making the skullcap reflect the team color along with a bandana wrapped around his leg. Once his chest is moved back the armor will be more detailed in the smaller renderings... so... what does everyone think of the spikes?? heheh

[Flamescreen]

All this is fine, with a minor detail: don't add so much stuff that might do it better looking but distract from the main goal, making the sprite iself...

[Ed the Monkey]

I'm a perfectionist...... it's really hard to make me happy... especially when it's stuff that I do. Personally I want to build a campagn that rivals Microforte`'s work and models that do the same... and all without the help of 20-200 extra designers, modellers, etc... I don't like limitations, that's why I don't like sleep...because it limits me... That's why I want to make all these improvments... and that's why it might take a while, but on the up side... it might look really cool when I'm done. However... if I could build a team, I might be happier.
Here's my que so far...
1) metal armor (because i was already working on it)
2) Vault clothes (because that was one of the first requests)
3) combat armor (because it kicks ass)
4) raider style leather armor (because it kicks ass over normal style)
5) power armor (because I hope someone else will do it... it's a damn hard project and I'm afraid to take it on... plus I'm waiting for concept art)

With the next semester of college coming up and me taking 15 credits, plus trying to work nights... my schedual might be a little too packed to do anything. Chances are I won't get past a Vault Clothing model.. and there's about a snowballs chance in hell I'll be able to animate whatever I build. What I can do however is build the model (yeah... I guess that's the easy part or something) then ask OTB to post it for someone else to animate... or just wait 3 months for another open month (minus nights if I do get this job). So hopefully some unholly masachist will come along with a copy of 3d max and pick up where I leave off... a possible protoge is in the lurch... but I don't know if he's as dedicated and i'd hate to pitch all the shitwork on him (I'd love to but I might feel bad about it). So don't expect this to be done any time soon... sorry to burst your bubble...

[Flamescreen]

That's perfectly fine...
I can wait for three years...
Don't know if anyone else can, though...

[Forty-six & Two]

Well, im pretty sure everyone modding for FoT knows that it takes time, so im pretty sure most people wont mind waiting for quite a long time. I dont. this model looks spiffy man! Dont stop that.

[Flamescreen]

There, 2 votes already! Keep it up then!

[Max-Violence]

Lookin' good, lookin' very good!

[Red]

When I started my viewer I though interest would die down for the thing within a year... and look, it's been almost 2 years (for my viewer, not the game), and people appreciate the work that's been done... So even in 3 years it'll probably still have a following...

[Ed the Monkey]

I'd like to see a good old FO revival.... hehe... You're viewer is the key to the whole thing.... hell yeah, it'll have a following....

Now, to buisiness.... http://fishmonkey.50megs.com/ is where I've put up my newest preview and some stuff about it.... I've been up all night and day working on this model, so the site looking good wasn't a high priority... but there's the preview.

[Red]

I like the new muscle guy much better personally, and as you mention you still need the legs to be less straight. I also prefer the metal armour brightness in your new renders. It was too dark in the first.

I just noticed that the shadow is always in the same spot (in respect to the model), however the shadow should be in relation to the camera, not the model!

Now for a note:
In FO:T sprites, there are layers:
- Base colour
- Skin colour
- Hair colour
- Team colour

- The base colour in this case would probably be the armour
- The skin would be, well, the arms
- The Hair would be the hair rather obviously, though it can also be the hat
- The team would then probably be the pant colour

Now EACH of these items need to be rendered in DIFFERENT images! So you need a way to simply hide each "layer"... I know you can make groups of polies in 3DS, and I know you can even make groups of meshes... And you'll want to keep the groups pertaining to the bones and muscles, but I don't know wether you can make a mesh be part of two groups (the first being the bone/muscle for animating, while the second would be used to determine wether you render this in a specific layer.

So you'd have 4 groups, and bind the proper polies/meshes to them, and then hide 3 groups to render a layer, then hide the one you left and show another... Etc etc.. for all 4 layers.

Hope that's clear enough, I always say I'm a bad teacher and there's proof Just ask questions and I'll answer...

[Ed the Monkey]

Acutally I want to eliminate hair color, I want the hat to be team as well as the pants... or maybe I'll make the pants dark again and leave the hat as the only indication of team color. I was thinking of also putting a "bandana" around the arm or leg of this character with the team color on it... kind of like the cloth that hangs down from the other metal armor...but done in a cool way. the legs I'm gonna see about fixing right now. As far as the lights... I took the lights that Section8 gave me, and I added another fill light opposite to the one he told me... it seems that worked, because the other didn't. He's also wrong about the shadow light... maybe it worked with 3ds 2, but with 4 it just isn't working right... I think the light should be just overhead.... Some of the sprites seem to have the shadow rendered rotating with the character, but I *think* from looking closely at a few of them, that that's just an optical illusion or mistake or something... I think that there is 1 light, that's just a bit closer to 0,0 but is still on one distinct side of it... look really closely at the floor benith the standing characters w/o guns and I think you'll see that the shadow is on one side.

[Flamescreen]

Two notes-
To Red: I think skin should include the part of face that isn't hair also.

To Ed: I think I was reading somewhere they used Max ver2, so that's really an ancient program. It might have a lot more differences than yours, it is something to be cautious about...