Yet Another Lionheart Screenshot

Mad Max RW · Post by **Mad Max RW** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:46 am

Where's the cast shadow for that big cross? The light is going right through it. The textures and everything aren't bad, but the room would look so much cooler with a big shadow swept across the floor.

TheReaper · Post by **TheReaper** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:52 am

Ah, I wasn't really looking close enough. As I'm sure most players won't when they're playing. But you're right, if it had the shadow, it would be so much cooler.

Killzig · Post by **Killzig** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 3:45 am

Where's the holy water bird bath?

TheReaper · Post by **TheReaper** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 4:27 am

It probably evaporated

Strap · Post by **Strap** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 8:04 am

Nooo! it burns! the magic, it burns!

yes.. i dont really think im gonna buy that game...
otherwise i'll just get it off KaZaA for free! mwahahah
same as my 3dsMAX, Acid, Quake, Quake3, Quake3, simcity3k, and others... yeap

Mad Max RW · Post by **Mad Max RW** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 9:46 am

TheReaper wrote:It probably evaporated

Alongside the game's originalilty

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 12:45 pm

Mad Max RW wrote:
TheReaper wrote:It probably evaporated
Alongside the game's originalilty

And my hopes of this game being any good...

Slave_Master · Post by **Slave_Master** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 12:50 pm

The game is going to be shit.

Note that always having low expectations means you will never be disappointed.

Red · Post by **Red** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 1:13 pm

Hey that's my quote... My opinion of the game went from "being shit" to "being boring" personally, and the only reason fro that is the extra time they got to work on it... The plot is novel at least, the engine'll be better then IE crap for sure... But the real-time-ity of it just throws me right off.

VasikkA · Post by **VasikkA** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 8:29 pm

Hey it's not Fallout, but it's at least 10x more interesting than most 'fantasy' RPGs. Certain elements, like the SPECIAL system, alternative history based on real world, make it feel like Fallout-lite, preparing the gaming world to the real sequel.

Jeff · Post by **Jeff** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 9:05 pm

Araanor wrote:I don't see what's supposed to so bad about this pic?

This is year 2002. That screenshot would've looked good about 6 centuries ago.

Ok then, most people have a slight distrust towards Lionheart.

For a reason. Can you blame us?

I'm probably going to check it out anyway, but I doubt it's any better than NWN.

Mad Max RW · Post by **Mad Max RW** » Mon Sep 16, 2002 11:00 pm

I'm not saying Lionheart will be a bad game. It might be good, considering it's just another fantasy rpg. Black Isle might cook up a decent storyline with pretty graphics, but the game is still JUST ANOTHER FANTASY RPG. There's nothing innovative about it. The whole fantasy genre is a cool one, but it's been done to death.

To seriously grab my attention a game needs to stand outside of the norm. Anybody can write a storyline. Hell, most games are about one guy saving the world from the god of evil or whatever. What seems almost impossible for developers is creating a new and original setting for a game.

I can eat chicken every day of my life, but once in a while it's nice to have some pork. Get my drift?

TheReaper · Post by **TheReaper** » Tue Sep 17, 2002 1:41 am

Obviously it can't be better than NWN, nothing to date is anymore. NWN is easily the best Fantasy RPG ever.

I'm still getting Lionheart though.

Mad Max RW · Post by **Mad Max RW** » Tue Sep 17, 2002 2:24 am

You obviously haven't played many fantasy rpgs. Hell, I won't even consider NWN a role playing game. It doesn't matter what kind of character you are because the goal is always the same. The point to the game is to get stronger weapons, max out your stats, and chop up thousands of monsters in hallway after hallway after hallway. Multiplayer has the potential for role playing, but most treat it as a top down Quake.

If you want to try the best RPG ever made, find a copy of Darksun: Shattered Lands.

TheReaper · Post by **TheReaper** » Tue Sep 17, 2002 2:46 am

That's where you're wrong, I've played thousands of them actually.

Ultima series was a huge favourite of mine for ages, and Ultima Online still has a place in my heart.

Crow of Ill Omen · Post by **Crow of Ill Omen** » Tue Sep 17, 2002 6:24 am

Mad Max RW wrote:You obviously haven't played many fantasy rpgs. Hell, I won't even consider NWN a role playing game. It doesn't matter what kind of character you are because the goal is always the same. The point to the game is to get stronger weapons, max out your stats, and chop up thousands of monsters in hallway after hallway after hallway. Multiplayer has the potential for role playing, but most treat it as a top down Quake.

If you want to try the best RPG ever made, find a copy of Darksun: Shattered Lands.

NWN is only a game of that sort in the same way many RPG game systems are; the quality of RP is dependent on the players and GM. Despite its many flaws, NWN gives players amazing scope for creating scenarios with depth and character.

When I was into AD&D (10 to 20 years ago), we'd have KILLED for something like NWN. People seem to be intent on judging it as a failure, and using various arguments relating to what it COULD have been or what THEY wanted it to be, and completely ignore all the great things it brings to people.

Meanwhile, back at the castle, I sincerely hope Lionheart brings something oringal. My hopes are tempered by the presence of the stock fantasy races, and the high-fantasy setting, and yet another rationalised magic system but maybe there is something worthwhile in there.

Rosh · Post by **Rosh** » Tue Sep 17, 2002 11:52 am

Crow of Ill Omen wrote: NWN is only a game of that sort in the same way many RPG game systems are; the quality of RP is dependent on the players and GM. Despite its many flaws, NWN gives players amazing scope for creating scenarios with depth and character.

When I was into AD&D (10 to 20 years ago), we'd have KILLED for something like NWN. People seem to be intent on judging it as a failure, and using various arguments relating to what it COULD have been or what THEY wanted it to be, and completely ignore all the great things it brings to people.

Unfortunately it gets buried...how fast? When the Next Shiny Thing™ comes out, many people will abandon NWN because it takes a LOT of effort to make something truly good. These "buildware" games have always done mediocre overall and have had an extremely limited life expectancy. Unlimited Adventures, Adventure Kit Creator, Vampire: The Masquerade, etc. Their following does down very fast compared to most single-player games, which is odd.

The problem most prospective DMs face is that they are trying to do what is not been done before - with the same tools given to thousands of others. Another problem is that there's hardly any way to present their place as any better than the rest without the two-edged sword of popularity. You have a few good people and the place seems great; you get more, you run into other problems.

Simply put, why am I going to spend more time on crafting a location when I can do it even faster for PnP? I can also do MORE in PnP and add twists in the game easier without having to frantically run around doing this in the DM controls, with the possibility that one or more of the players might just have nullified or ruined whatever twist I might have decided to throw in at the last second. Sure, you can tweak the strengths of the critters. That's entirely a trivial facet of DMing.

Compared to a DM worth his shield (or really, the lack of one), NWN is a worthless waste of time. Sure, it might be great for friends over the internet, but it's not going to have the long-term scope and longevity of a M* (or IRC, ICQ, etc.) without requiring HEAVY work on someone's part. THAT is the major flaw. The provider will eventually get sick of regular crafting and eventually become jaded, as what happened to many V:tM gamemasters, UA developers, etc.

TheReaper wrote:That's where you're wrong, I've played thousands of them actually.

Ultima series was a huge favourite of mine for ages, and Ultima Online still has a place in my heart.

I've a certain...fondness for Ultima, for obvious reasons. Ultima 7 happens to be my favorite, since the scope/interaction of the world is pretty much without peer, though I didn't like the battles for the most part. I both like and dislike UO. I like it because it did make MMORPGs more widespread than they were from NWN. The downside is that it not only killed off Ultima, but it also killed off Origin. Which is a damn shame since most of the best work I've seen in the industry has come from them.

VasikkA · Post by **VasikkA** » Tue Sep 17, 2002 5:32 pm

NWN isn't really comparable to PnP. But as a computer game, it tries to bring some new aspects to CRPG world, the DM-kit. But as Rosh said, it's quite unpractical, requires a lot of work and lacks the diversity a PnP RPG offers. The Singleplayer campaign is uninteresting, boring and full of the clichÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â©s that fantasy RPGs are full of. Simply put, it's crap. So the future of NWN is dependant upon the new 'modules' fans and editers create. Generally, very few are active in doing these modules and downloading them, so a lot of the potential gets wasted. At it's best though, NWN can be an entertaining game, despite it's D&D.

Ultima 7 is probably the best CRPG ever created, both Black Gate and Serpent Isle. Ultima 6(anyone remember Savage Empire and Martian Dreams?) and Ultima Underworld are classic games too. U8 and U9 were OK, although I hated the jumping puzzles in U8 and bugs in U9). I haven't played the older Ultimas. It's a pity we don't see Origin RPGs anymore.

Red · Post by **Red** » Tue Sep 17, 2002 7:00 pm

Bah, the soul is gone from Origin, even though his success went to his head and while that happenned quality of his involvment in the games dwindled. Richard Garriot if I remember correctly? Now he's at another company making another (quite frankly better looking then UO) MMORPG, but basically there's nothing special or innovative about that.

Rosh · Post by **Rosh** » Tue Sep 17, 2002 7:07 pm

Red wrote:Bah, the soul is gone from Origin, even though his success went to his head and while that happenned quality of his involvment in the games dwindled.

Not really. The passion was quite there, with all of the Origin team members. Things went downhill when EA became Origin's "Titus", which is an adequate metaphor. Ultima 8's development suffered because of plans for UO (aka Multima), and once UO was done and raking in the money, EA wasn't interested in much else. Shapiro, Iolo, and a good number of other team members just kind of wandered off as it was known that Garriot had no control over Origin anymore.

It took a fair amount of pressuring from Lord Dick to get *any* wrap-up to the Ultima series, else it was just going to mean a shallow story cash-whore with the MMORPG. Hell, most of the kids who played the MMORPG didn't know about the series. The UO plot is fairly crappy at times, and that's where they took developers from to work on UIX and get it shoved out.