Accurate Super Mutant Stats

OnTheBounce · Post by **OnTheBounce** » Sun Sep 15, 2002 10:22 am

I was poking through the various Holodisk texts a couple of days ago and noticed something I'd forgotten about regarding SMs:

Vree's Autopsy Disk wrote:

Initial Hypothesis

Based on the increased size of the neural transmitters and synaptic receivers, I would hypothesize the subject had acute reflexes and heightened senses. Based on the reports the Knights gave of the area in which the subject was discovered, barred, high radiation, extremely high concentrations of chemical agents, it is a wonder the subject survived as long as it did. Performing tests to determine possible cause od [sic] death.

Basically, if Vree's findings are correct SMs should have both high PE as well as AG, which would make them a true nightmare in combat, excepting - of course - that they're just really not very bright.

I don't have access to the SMs' stats in the RPGs right now, but in FoT they generally only have average PE (5) as well as AG, which makes them both inaccurate as well as only giving them 7 AP, which makes them slow on the trigger.

Remember that the SMs were supposed to be a Master Race, and that they really only had two flaws:

Sterility (all)
Low Intelligence (vast majority)

As they are set up in FoT they're really more like Ogres - or, if you want to wax AD&D-esque: Hill Giants.

Does anyone have any data on SM stats in the RPGs? If so, please post it, as I'm trying to keep my next mission as close to the RPGs as possible and it involves SMs.

Thanks in advance,

OTB

Meths · Post by **Meths** » Sun Sep 15, 2002 5:59 pm

It's a matter of the crappy special system in Fo RPGs. It also annoys me but NPCs in both Fo1 and Fo2 don't have that kind of stats as PC. They're created in a little different way - they have only the secondary stats like number of hp, number of ap, AC, carry weigh, etc. They don't have any perks, no true experience levels. That's the thing that FoT fixed. I don't really think it's possible to dtermine the true stats of either mutants, nor any NPC in Fo/Fo2. Didn't you notice that most of the characters in both Fallouts have suspiciously round numbers of hp? Or how did Marcus get 13 ap? Or Frank Horrigan with his 18 ap and 999 hp.

I do also think that all the characters in Fallouts should be just like PC. Should have their normal stats, should gain exp. levels and all. It would be much easier and more interactive solution.

It sound's like kinda topic I just wanted to post in Fo3 forum

.

VasikkA · Post by **VasikkA** » Sun Sep 15, 2002 9:04 pm

Super mutants' AG and PE were kept down probably because of game balance reasons. Or maybe their huge size prevents the most acrobatic manouvers, but still are somewhat above average agile to their size. Just think of sumo wrestlers.. :roll:

It'd be interesting to see Super(and super duper) Mutants' stats in the next FOB update, I think Chris Avellone has missed those. Just took a quick look and didn't find Marcus' stats either.

Megatron · Post by **Megatron** » Tue Sep 17, 2002 1:55 am

Meths wrote:It's a matter of the crappy special system in Fo RPGs. It also annoys me but NPCs in both Fo1 and Fo2 don't have that kind of stats as PC. They're created in a little different way - they have only the secondary stats like number of hp, number of ap, AC, carry weigh, etc. They don't have any perks, no true experience levels. That's the thing that FoT fixed.

Uh...it's a game. Not everyones going to have equal stats. The special system isn't crappy.

You don't play any other game and say 'That's unfair! He can throw fireballs and fly! Waaaah'

[url]I don't really think it's possible to dtermine the true stats of either mutants, nor any NPC in Fo/Fo2. Didn't you notice that most of the characters in both Fallouts have suspiciously round numbers of hp? Or how did Marcus get 13 ap? Or Frank Horrigan with his 18 ap and 999 hp.[/quote]
It's a game?

I think the super-mutants had reasonably high ap, as they had to fire all those big guns, or mabye they had fast trigger fingers.

OnTheBounce · Post by **OnTheBounce** » Tue Sep 17, 2002 3:58 am

Pyro wrote:I think the super-mutants had reasonably high ap, as they had to fire all those big guns, or mabye they had fast trigger fingers.

Big Guns usually cost 6 AP to fire and most of the SMs I've encountered in FO1 - which is currently what I'm most interested in due to the FoT map I'm working on - were only able to fire their weapon once/turn. The same goes for the ones armed w/Laser/Plasma Rifles which only cost 5 AP to fire. Hence I'd say that they had <10 AP. (I'm guessing 9 AP, at least for some of the Melee chaps who could get off 3 punches/round w/Spiked Knuckles).

Thanks for the input, guys. If anyone else has anything to add, feel free.

OTB

Slider · Post by **Slider** » Tue Sep 17, 2002 12:13 pm

You could e-mail MCA to see if he has the stats for Marcus and use those stats as a basis for your map.

PS. I'm sorry in advance just incase the SM stats are higher than in FOT and everyone has a tough time on OTB's map(s).

Temaperacl · Post by **Temaperacl** » Tue Sep 17, 2002 2:35 pm

I'm lazy, so i'm just posting the FO2 SPECIAL stats for them for now. If I have more time, I'll dig up all the FO1 stats.

Fallout 2
Super Mutant:
Strength- 9
Percecption- 9
Endurance- 8
Charisma- 4
Intelligence- 7
Agility- 8
Luck- 8

VasikkA · Post by **VasikkA** » Tue Sep 17, 2002 5:09 pm

Hmm, those stats are higher than I thought. Not only they have increased strength, endurance, perception and agility, their luck and intelligence(??) is above average. A total of 53 attribute points, nice.

Super Mutant stats in FO would be nice to see for comparison. Maybe the really dumb mutants, like Harry, were a minority or exceptions. SM's seem to be above average intelligent and some individuals even smarter, but they were 'made' for military purposes. What about super-duper mutants?

Temaperacl · Post by **Temaperacl** » Wed Sep 18, 2002 7:47 am

Here are the stats for the FO1 Super Mutants:

Super Mutant
Strength: 8
Perception: 4
Endurance: 7
Charisma: 3
Intelligence: 5
Agility: 6
Luck: 5

Super Mutant Lieutenant
Strength: 10
Perception: 8
Endurance: 10
Charisma: 4
Intelligence: 8
Agility: 7
Luck: 6

Tough Super Mutant
Strength: 9
Perception: 6
Endurance: 8
Charisma: 1
Intelligence: 6
Agility: 6
Luck: 4

Super Mutant Medic
Strength: 8
Perception: 8
Endurance: 7
Charisma: 4
Intelligence: 7
Agility: 8
Luck: 6

Super Mutant Lieutenant
Strength: 10
Perception: 8
Endurance: 10
Charisma: 4
Intelligence: 8
Agility: 7
Luck: 6

Super Mutant Guard
Strength: 8
Perception: 5
Endurance: 8
Charisma: 3
Intelligence: 3
Agility: 5
Luck: 5

Mean Super Mutant
Strength: 9
Perception: 7
Endurance: 7
Charisma: 2
Intelligence: 2
Agility: 7
Luck: 2

Mad Super Mutant
Strength: 9
Perception: 9
Endurance: 8
Charisma: 4
Intelligence: 7
Agility: 8
Luck: 8

Deadly Super Mutant
Strength: 10
Perception: 8
Endurance: 10
Charisma: 4
Intelligence: 8
Agility: 9
Luck: 8

Harry
Strength: 9
Perception: 3
Endurance: 8
Charisma: 3
Intelligence: 3
Agility: 6
Luck: 9

Meths · Post by **Meths** » Thu Sep 19, 2002 12:31 am

Deadly SM, mean SM, where the hell are they?

OnTheBounce · Post by **OnTheBounce** » Thu Sep 19, 2002 2:55 am

Slider wrote:You could e-mail MCA to see if he has the stats for Marcus and use those stats as a basis for your map.

Marcus' stats are in the FoB, actually, along w/all the other NPCs from FO2. However, since he's such a special case (no pun intended!) I'd be leary of using his stats for anything other than a leader-type.

Slider wrote:PS. I'm sorry in advance just incase the SM stats are higher than in FOT and everyone has a tough time on OTB's map(s).

Looks like it will just be this one map, Slider. SMs don't figure into my campaign except on a very limited basis. I may rig up a SP map at some time in the indeterminate future that allows the player to assault the Military Base w/a BoS squad, however. (I'm not making any promises, it depends on just how long it takes me to get the actual campaign ready. Hell, I've already been working on it for about a year...

)

Temaperacl wrote:I'm lazy...

Now there's a load of bullshit for you!

Thanks a ton, Temaperacl! Even if your post has me rather stunned at some of the designer's thinking.

Cheers,

OTB

Stainless · Post by **Stainless** » Thu Sep 19, 2002 6:29 pm

OnTheBounce wrote:I'm trying to keep my next mission as close to the RPGs as possible and it involves SMs

Hmm....would that be the one regarding the Hub? And would it be the ending of Fallout where the Hubs attacked the Hub?

Tank · Post by **Tank** » Fri Sep 20, 2002 12:59 pm

Temaperacl wrote:Here are the stats for the FO1 Super Mutants:

Super Mutant
Strength: 8
Perception: 4
Endurance: 7
Charisma: 3
Intelligence: 5
Agility: 6
Luck: 5

Super Mutant Lieutenant
Strength: 10
Perception: 8
Endurance: 10
Charisma: 4
Intelligence: 8
Agility: 7
Luck: 6

Tough Super Mutant
Strength: 9
Perception: 6
Endurance: 8
Charisma: 1
Intelligence: 6
Agility: 6
Luck: 4

Super Mutant Medic
Strength: 8
Perception: 8
Endurance: 7
Charisma: 4
Intelligence: 7
Agility: 8
Luck: 6

Super Mutant Lieutenant
Strength: 10
Perception: 8
Endurance: 10
Charisma: 4
Intelligence: 8
Agility: 7
Luck: 6

Super Mutant Guard
Strength: 8
Perception: 5
Endurance: 8
Charisma: 3
Intelligence: 3
Agility: 5
Luck: 5

Mean Super Mutant
Strength: 9
Perception: 7
Endurance: 7
Charisma: 2
Intelligence: 2
Agility: 7
Luck: 2

Mad Super Mutant
Strength: 9
Perception: 9
Endurance: 8
Charisma: 4
Intelligence: 7
Agility: 8
Luck: 8

Deadly Super Mutant
Strength: 10
Perception: 8
Endurance: 10
Charisma: 4
Intelligence: 8
Agility: 9
Luck: 8

Harry
Strength: 9
Perception: 3
Endurance: 8
Charisma: 3
Intelligence: 3
Agility: 6
Luck: 9

>gives his old buddy a great big hug<

btw, do you think we'll need that for FMF?

OnTheBounce · Post by **OnTheBounce** » Fri Sep 20, 2002 10:32 pm

Stainless wrote:
OnTheBounce wrote:I'm trying to keep my next mission as close to the RPGs as possible and it involves SMs
Hmm....would that be the one regarding the Hub? And would it be the ending of Fallout where the [mutants armies] attacked the Hub?

Yes, exactly. Basically, I was looking through the game endings for FO1 and remembered that I've never been able to save The Hub. It's such a common ending that I think we can assume that it's the canonical one. So I thought, "Wouldn't it be cool to have a mission dealing w/The Hub getting overrun?"

I wish some of the mappers out there would put out missions like that: things that had you saying, "Wouldn't it be cool if I could have had a squad of [fill in organization] when I was [fill in what you'd like to have done in FO/FO2]." One idea I had that I won't be pursuing is to play a group of Raiders sacking Vault City. Of course the Laser Turrets would actually have to work to make it a real challenge, but I think if it were executed correctly it would be an awesome mission. (Besides, you would have an excuse to kill Lynette...

)

OTB

Stainless · Post by **Stainless** » Sat Sep 21, 2002 5:59 am

Sounds great.

Although, I take it your player character will be the Sheriff or something? Or will you control Decker, or am I completely off :p

And I've actually finished Fallout without that ending

OnTheBounce · Post by **OnTheBounce** » Sat Sep 21, 2002 9:34 pm

Stainless wrote:Although, I take it your player character will be the Sheriff or something? Or will you control Decker, or am I completely off :p

The main character is a mercenary who happened to be in The Hub, looking for Mr. Hightower regarding some work when The Master's army hit the place. I won't go any further for fear of spoiling some of what I hope will be "nifty surprises". (Of course, if one hasn't played the RPGs a lot of that mission will go over one's head...)

Stainless wrote:And I've actually finished Fallout without that ending

:bad-words: (We really need a a smiley sticking its tongue out, you know...)

OTB

Saint_Proverbius · Post by **Saint_Proverbius** » Sun Sep 22, 2002 4:30 am

Where's the Nightkin?

I wouldn't get too hung up on their stats, really. Supermutants produced from irradiated stock can have unpredictable results. Intelligence for them would be highly irregular, according to Chris Taylor. That's why the Master was so interested in the location of Vault 13, a vault that's been sealed since the begining. He wanted fresh, pure stock.

Supermutants didn't have to be smart or perceptive to be productive either, that's why they had The Unity. The Master thinks for them, and just interprets what they visualize.

Meths · Post by **Meths** » Sun Sep 22, 2002 5:10 am

Saint_Proverbius wrote:That's why the Master was so interested in the location of Vault 13, a vault that's been sealed since the begining. He wanted fresh, pure stock.

That's one of the things that we can't be sure about. If so then why do Mutants apparetly kill the Vault 13 dwellers when you give them the location? (outro)

OnTheBounce · Post by **OnTheBounce** » Sun Sep 22, 2002 7:02 am

Saint_Proverbius wrote:Where's the Nightkin?

Good question. I'm basically assuming that they are tougher, more skilled and better armored SMs. (Since I'm switching the Laser and Plasma Rifles to the "Heavy" icon the SMs actually get to spray energy weapon-based death at the PCs, too...

)

Saint_Proverbius wrote:I wouldn't get too hung up on their stats, really. Supermutants produced from irradiated stock can have unpredictable results. Intelligence for them would be highly irregular, according to Chris Taylor. That's why the Master was so interested in the location of Vault 13, a vault that's been sealed since the begining. He wanted fresh, pure stock.

Duly noted.

Saint_Proverbius wrote:Supermutants didn't have to be smart or perceptive to be productive either, that's why they had The Unity. The Master thinks for them, and just interprets what they visualize.

Interesting. The Master's psi-powers obviously went further than I thought.

OTB

Spazmo · Post by **Spazmo** » Sun Sep 22, 2002 7:06 am

Meths wrote:
Saint_Proverbius wrote:That's why the Master was so interested in the location of Vault 13, a vault that's been sealed since the begining. He wanted fresh, pure stock.
That's one of the things that we can't be sure about. If so then why do Mutants apparetly kill the Vault 13 dwellers when you give them the location? (outro)

That would be because those Vault dwellers are resisting. They kill maybe a dozen people in that movie. There are 1,000 people in a Vault (although this has obviously fluctuated a bit becasue of people who leave, are born, or die). They certainly wouldn't kill them all.

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Accurate Super Mutant Stats

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