What tiles you´d like to see?

[Red]

Well I can't really make full maps yet since I don't have most of the sprites... Althogh maybe I could make maps and people could populate them with the sprites The problem with the is that this means my maps wouldn't be properly designed for actual play use, but insteand on looks... (Although I try to take playing into account, for example I never leave areas "open" so that if I accidently leave another open space somwhere else the player could magically shoot thorugh a bunch of walls...

BTW, I'm having trouble with occlusion. I tagged a bunch of tiles as "Windowed" but the tiles behind those still dissapear... Ugh. Any ideas?

Also, the tiles I import NEVER keep the flags as set in the tile. That's VERY annoying, anyone actually have the flags inport properly in the map editor?

[OnTheBounce]

BTW, I'm having trouble with occlusion. I tagged a bunch of tiles as "Windowed" but the tiles behind those still dissapear... Ugh. Any ideas?

My guess would be that the alpha channel/lack thereof in the tile has something to do w/it. (Then again, I'm just a clueless duffer when it comes to graphics. ) There is a problem w/the windows in the Vault tileset that does the same thing. Ingame the windowed area shows up as black. The only solution for this I've found is to place the wall tiles on the same level as the floor tiles. So instead of stacking the wall tiles on top of the floor tiles you're "ringing" the wall tiles around the floor tiles. (You can use the smalll tile that goes over doors to fill doorways up, just set it two levels lower than the actual floor tiles.)

Also, the tiles I import NEVER keep the flags as set in the tile. That's VERY annoying, anyone actually have the flags inport properly in the map editor?

You've discovered a bug w/the editors...

!!!! PLEASE NOTE: There are occasional errors where the flags attached to Tiles are not brought in when that tile is initially placed in the map. To fix this problem, ALWAYS use the TOOLS\UPDATE TILES USED and then the TOOLS\NEW OCCLUSION DATA tools (IN THAT ORDER) before saving a map for public consumption !!!!

So just make sure you use "Update Tiles" and everthing will be all right. Warning: This feature erases all flags that you've manually assigned to tiles!!!

OTB

[Red]

Well, I didnt' "DISCOVER" it, since it's a known bug... Ugh. So In other wrds, avoid playing with tile flags until you're sure you're done with your map - or set everything manually.

Do you know of any tiles which use the window flags properly? I WAS using the vaul tiles, not custom ones! I'm starting to wonder wether the game has toruble with teh Windowed flags on Version 10 tiles... If you could point me to any other tile that works properly, I'll check it up. Of course what sucks is that you'd always have to include "patched" tiles in games which use them...

[OnTheBounce]

Well, I didnt' "DISCOVER" it, since it's a known bug... Ugh. So In other words, avoid playing with tile flags until you're sure you're done with your map - or set everything manually.

If you're walking along the street and step in dog shit that everyone else knew was there you still "discovered" it. Right?

Yes, avoid manually flagging the tiles until after you've generated your final occlusion data. Unless, of course you need to test something for purposes of LoS or something. I'm telling you, this is a pain in the ass.

Do you know of any tiles which use the window flags properly?...I'm starting to wonder wether the game has toruble with the Windowed flags on Version 10 tiles... If you could point me to any other tile that works properly, I'll check it up.

What do you mean by "use the window flags properly"? Do you mean "the graphics display properly" or "the flag is automatically imported"?

If it's the former, then any of the Ruined City wall tiles will do, except Type 5, although in that tileset the partial/ruined windows do work properly. If it's the latter I'm pretty sure that none of them do.

I WAS using the vaul tiles, not custom ones!...Of course what sucks is that you'd always have to include "patched" tiles in games which use them...

Yes, I figured as much. This has been a topic that's come up every now and then for a long time. The work-around I mentioned before is the only solution short of revamping the tiles I've found so far.

The pain in the arse associated w/distributing "patched" tiles is yet another argument for even SP map designers to have their material run w/the -path command. That way they could distribute the tiles once, then simply have ZIPs w/new material to splice into their custom directories.

OTB

[Red]

Yeah, I was thinking of establishing a standard so everyone could share their tiles, sprites and NEW entities with everyone else...

Basically the idea is to use a common path "-path MOFO" (Mapper Organization for Fallout ) and within that MOFO dir, every mapper makes their own directory (Red!, OTB, etc etc) and stores their own stuff in there.

This way, everyone who runs their own mod would run -path MOFO -path YourOwnMod, and the end user wouldn't have duplicates of sprites. (I've tested and using two -path command does work).

Any mod which OVERRIDES the default behaviours (may it be of a sprite, tile, entity, campaign, chracter, etc etc...) would be in the "YourOwnMod" folder, while those which don't will be in MOFO\YourNick.

An extra word: There would still be problems... Say someone releases a tile, and then updates it to make it Windowed (and semi-transparant). Well, he would ABSOLUTELY need to create a new tile, as otherwise mods which use the older tile would break when using the update tile (since the occlusion wouldn't render the tiles behind the wall since it wasn't processed as being windowed while the occlusion calculations were fone).

If we can agree to this I could propose to MOFO certify mods for people, since it's a bit complicated... That and we need a cetral entity which reserves the "nicks" in the MOFO directory so we don't have duplicates.

[OnTheBounce]

Goddamn, Red. Sounds good to me!

Um...I nominate you as the central authority. See Kreegle to pick up your nice, new brown shirt and shiny jack boots...and we should change your title to "MOFO Certifaction Authority (tm)". :mrgreen:

I think it was on the BIS forums that you brought up that using the -path command makes the game run slower, which is something I've noticed also. Would running a double -path command exacerbate that situation?

OTB

[Max-Violence]

Would running a double -path command exacerbate that situation?

'Cause if it does, count me out. That's one of the (many) reasons I'm gonna stick to mostly series of maps instead of campaigns.

BTW, I reserve the "YourOwnFolder" name of Max-V for myself

[Red]

I'll investigate further. I noticed this mostly in the editor and figured it wouldn't have had so much of an impact in the normal game...

[Senor Deluxe]

Today I sent the first part of my tileset to MaxV, OTB, Flamescreen and StevieD. (I´m not sure if I sent it twice, cause my browser crashed while sending, it should be only one email however.) If anyone else is interested, please let me know. I´ll send it to Odin to post it on NMA when the second part is done as well.

[Stevie D]

Today I sent the first part of my tileset to MaxV, OTB, Flamescreen and StevieD. (I´m not sure if I sent it twice,

Yeah, you did, m8 :mrgreen:

If anyone else is interested, please let me know. I´ll send it to Odin to post it on NMA when the second part is done as well.

It's a nice set, Senor D, although I admit I haven't played around with the walls too much, yet.

The colourful, tiled floor is nice, though, and I'd like to use that at some point.

Yeah, the walls... they look good. What did you have in mind, a hospital, or similar institution? Something with hygine (sp?) in mind (once upon a time )

I have to admit that I didn't know what to think of the yellowed glass; perhaps it's a little garish next to the blue of the walls?

Like I say, I haven't really juggled the wall tiles about too much, yet, but thanks for sending this bumper crop of tiles!

Steve

[Senor Deluxe]

Oh. :oops: Sorry for sending it twice. I don´t save copies to my "Sent" Folder when attaching files, so I wasn´t sure.

The inspiration was actually a house in my street. I wanted to do something 50s like, and this is pretty much what this house looks like. And it has yellow windows! That´s why. They could´ve been a bit less yellow, you might be right, but that´s why I included the open windows as well. Anyone else got an opinion on this? If the others would like to have windows a bit less colorful as well, I might redo them, but this wouldn´t be very much fun and -honestly- I´d like to focus on new tiles.

I didn´t spend too much time on the floortiles, and I´m not totally satisfied with them either. They should´ve looked like this typical 50s stone floor, but now it reminds me a bit of some fantasy churchfloor.

[OnTheBounce]

I'll investigate further. I noticed this mostly in the editor and figured it wouldn't have had so much of an impact in the normal game...

You know, I was thinking -- always a dangerous thing! -- and since we'd basically be slapping together a collection of tiles you could always simply put everything in a folder called "MOFO" w/subdirectories for everyone that the user simply pastes/unzips into the core folder's tile subdirectory. So you'd have a path that looked like this:

Fallout Tactics/core/MOFO/SenorDeluxe

Wouldn't that alleviate having to run the double path command line and therefore keep any slow-down due to the -path command to a minimum?

Basically you'd have to include a note in the ReadMe as to which version would be needed to play the mod. ("This mission requires MOFO Custom Tiles Pack v1.27 or later.")

Senor Deluxe: I received (both! ) your email(s). I'm trying to catch up on about 4 days of intensive mapping that were lost due to a little meltdown I had yesterday. I'll email you w/some feedback as soon as I have taken a "gander" at your tiles. (All 1.2 megs of 'em. )

Cheers,

OTB

[Red]

You know, I was thinking -- always a dangerous thing! -- and since we'd basically be slapping together a collection of tiles you could always simply put everything in a folder called "MOFO" w/subdirectories for everyone that the user simply pastes/unzips into the core folder's tile subdirectory.

Well I decided to open a thread about it, and you posted that as I was typing the message for the other thread...

http://www.duckandcover.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2876

[OnTheBounce]

Well I decided to open a thread about it, and you posted that as I was typing the message for the other thread...

And I was reading that thread as you were posting this.

OTB

[Flamescreen]

Got the tiles SD!
From what I hear it will be very satisfactory, but I will not be able to see them before next week, due to several problems. Sorry!
As soon as I see them I will make comments here or by e-mail.
Btw, thanks for doing all these tiles for us. I'm quite gratefull, as I think all of us should, as we have someone to deal with what most of us can't do that well.

I always look up to people that do things better than myself. Better be positive and generous to something than make even slightly negative comments that might discourage someone, as I'm sure all of us agree.

[Senor Deluxe]

Of course I appreciate any sort of constructive feedback, after all it´s you guys who should use my tiles. So everyone´s opinion is really important to me. And although the most encouraging thing for me would be to see my tiles being used in your maps, I´d fully understand, if nobody would include them, because in this case I didn´t ask anybody, just made what I liked best. I just had to do these! :mrgreen:

Btw, I´ll be away for about ten days, so maybe I won´t check forums or email that often.

[Stevie D]

I always look up to people that do things better than myself. Better be positive and generous to something than make even slightly negative comments that might discourage someone, as I'm sure all of us agree.

Agreed, Flamescreen,

Although when I admitted that I scratched my chin a bit at Senor D's choice of glass-colour in his most recent tile-set, I only did so because I thought it was for the best. After all, each of us can only judge Senor D's work by our own tastes.

Senor D is a master tile-builder, there can be no doubting that. But whilst he deserves all the praise we can lavish on his efforts, I don't think it would be sensible to shy away from making positive criticism if we think it necessary. Ultimately, I doubt he would thanks us for doing so, without wanting to put words in his mouth.

The last thing I want to do is dishearten Senor D. May his magic tile-weaving go on for many a year!

Steve

[The Shrike]

I ocasionally map. Still have yet to finish a map I start. But somthing that dissapointed me about the building tiles in FoT was the lack of the artdeco architecture. I was wondering if you could make the stone head wall corner tiles for buildings and the cornrt tiles of the man holding the globe. these could make maps feel more Fallouty. I know these are probably major tiles but the only way to get them is to ask, scince I don't have a modeling program.

[Stevie D]

Hi, Senor D

I was thinking the other day how we could all probably do with more flavor-tiles to spice up the areas of nothingness in our maps. I appreciate that flavour-tiles probably aren't top of the agenda for an artist such as yourself, I believe a while back you said you would openly welcome any suggestions. So without further ado, here's a few pics I dragged off Google, with a few idle minute on my hands.

AMBIENT FLORA

If I try to put myself in your shoes, I imagine that creating grass/tree/shrub/whatever tiles would be quite fulfilling for you, because you wouldn't necessarily have to crank out four tiles for each four facings per tile. Each could be very much a fire-and-forget project.

Here's some food for thought; each of these plants are naturally native to California:



Lupins



California Skullcap
Scutellaria californica



Spotted Coralroot
Corallorhiza maculata



Grassy jackpot!

For my next trick: miscellaneous junk!

Steve

[Senor Deluxe]

As I said, I´ve been away for a while, but now I´m back again.

Thanks, StevieD for getting those plant-pics!! You were right with your assumption that it is somewhat boring to make 4 directions for every tile, especially if there are so many similar tiles as in my last submission. However the next thing I´ll do are some tiles to complete that last set (although I´m not totally sure, what and how many tiles it´ll include). This might take 2 weeks. And I already have to announce that this will be my last submission for the next months because I started my diploma-project, which will take 100% of my time. Believe me, I could spend all of my time modelling tiles and making FO-related art, but unfortunately I can´t. But I´ll check regularly what you guys are doing, and the first thing I´ll do when I finished my diploma, is to come back here with more tiles. In case you are still around by that time...

I´ll go and dload JJ86´s map now and spend the rest of the evening playing and drinking beer.