Leon Boyarky on CRPGs and moolah

Saint_Proverbius · Post by **Saint_Proverbius** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 1:27 am

[ -> Editorial]

<a href="http://www.rpgcodex.com">RPG Codex</a> has it's <a href="http://www.rpgcodex.com/content.php?id=19">second article</a> on CRPG development by none other than Leon Boyarsky of <a href="http://www.troikagames.com/">Troika</a>. You may remember him as the big, bad artist guy on <a href="http://www.interplay.com/fallout">Fallout</a>. Here's a taste:
 
 <blockquote>Faced with this reality, most people throw up their hands and just decide to go for the Diablos (which are easier to make than a hardcore RPG, by the way). But I'm stupid - I mean stubborn. My solution is to somehow take the hardcore RPG to the masses. But to do that, I believe the hardcore base needs to grow, because a game won't get a chance to break out to the mainstream if a publisher won't fund/publish it because they can't foresee it selling over 100,000 units. Publishers always look to the past for their numbers - if you're making a Fallout style game, expect Fallout style numbers. And they're not swayed by the passion the fans display on the boards, either. </blockquote>
 
 Ten to one, this annoys Rosh of <a href="http://www.nma-fallout.com">NMA</a>.

Doyle · Post by **Doyle** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 2:29 am

Anyone know how much Arcanum did end up selling, by the way?

Rosh · Post by **Rosh** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 2:32 am

Saint_Proverbius wrote: Ten to one, this annoys Rosh of <a href="http://www.nma-fallout.com">NMA</a>.

Not really, because there's many factors that led to Fallout not selling well. It's known pretty widespread, had dismal advertising, and was easily pirated.

Hell, even Baldur's Garbage sold pretty well, but take a look at the #1 complaint about it. It's dry and boring, and pretty much only one way to play through it, making a good cry for an expansion pack.

The real trick to do is make a game that accomodates different playstyles and allows the people to play those different styles, go back and explore more about the game...and then go try to do this on other games. Games like Thief brought a whole new aspect to the FPS genre, and the hardcore CRPGs could appeal a bit more to the hack and slashers, by providing a bit of gameplay that could be brute-forced through. Take a look at Fallout, for example. It brought in a good number of people who otherwise wouldn't be around what you would call hardcore CRPGers, even before FOT brought in the clannies.

I believe that a hardcore CRPG could do well, if it's marketed as being for wide audiences, but in regards to allowing numerous balanced playstyles. The trick happens to be with how well it's made, and how approachable it is. Fallout certainly has a good mix of combat and other non-cerebral interaction that it isn't too intimidating for your average D&D rodent or other computer game players, but still has enough there that can draw them in to try other playstyles.

Section8 · Post by **Section8** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 6:20 am

Fallout has a lot of things that fall into the mass-appeal category. Sluts, Pimping your wife, drugs, excessive violence, etc. Somebody just needs to take the Carmageddon/GTA3/Eminem/Marilyn Manson before he started trying a little too hard approach and feed the media.

"This game will warp the minds of your children! It will almost certainly cause more Columbines! It will get your teenage daughter pregnant, and you son hooked on drugs. And when he's done huffing petrol, he's likely to join a cult, or journey to the nation of Islam! Next thing you know, he's crashing aircraft into buildings or emailing Anthrax back to his hometown!

Hey kids! Are you reading this? Your parents really dont want you playing this game. You will be so fucking cool if you do though. Besides it's not like that pimple faced EB clerk is going to check your ID. Go and buy it. You can brag about it at school to all your buddies whose parents won't let them buy the game.

Did we also mention it's banned in every country but yours? It's even been banned in every state but yours. You want to know why it got banned?

NUDITY!"

Mad Max RW · Post by **Mad Max RW** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 6:45 am

I really liked Baldur's Gate when it first came out. The last D&D RPG I played before that was Darksun, and it had the same kinda gameplay to it. Then a billion clones were released and the whole genre turned to crap. Much like the FPS genre.

I don't believe a true role playing game exists besides the pen and paper dungeons and dragons games. It always boils down to a hero guy trying to save the world or some shit. Computers ruined it. Now everybody focuses on graphics and an epic storyline instead of character development.

If you want to role play for real pick up a copy of the D&D advanced 2nd edition books and get some friends together. Computer games are for lazy people. Hell, I got lazy. So sue me. MMORPG's work well when you read about it, but the games themselves are bullshit. There's no role playing at all.

4too · Post by **4too** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 7:30 am

When the "head" count climaxes, will the total (sperm) count include the Mac sales? Fallout's strengths include it's power to propagate across platforms, across borders, and across time. I am REplaying Fallout on this ol' Mac and notice copywrites '96 and '97. Fallout's rep and erect respect still must be a gleam in someones's eye at BIS-Iply-et al.

It's still in question if any number of hands at BIS-Iply-et al, can milk this title, AGAIN, and cast it's seed on fertile ground. Will the final sin at BIS-Iply-et al be the one of Oman? Will the circle jerk be unbroken? Or is there ""a new dawn awaitin', in the sky, Lord in the sky?""

These days a good game with competitant Quality Assurance may go a long way towards 100k. The product needs to be a real entity. The trend for marketing for marketings sake has created busted bubbles and aborted dreams. The trend is SAFE, and addictive, as long as the leadership can afford to pay itself first, and bail with benifits, when the stock sinks to zero.

Creating a FO 3 would be risky, and would have to be nurtured like any child, all the way from the terrible 2's through the hell of adolescence.
It would have to go counter to the corporate group think of "WHAM BAM THANK YOU MAM........."

4too

ApTyp · Post by **ApTyp** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 12:27 pm

It's 'Onan', you idiot.

Section8 · Post by **Section8** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 12:31 pm

I'd hate to think about what Onan the Barbarian would do in a fight.

4too · Post by **4too** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 11:07 am

There are no Guidean (spelling help please!) Bibles in this motel, only a listing of cable channels. So much for spiritual guidance in our PC age.

So few reference sources on hand these days, I must ""depend on the kindness of strangers"" to make a 'correct' pan cultural link between multiple
images of waste and abuse, spend bolts and rubber raincoats.

Wandering the Halls of Marriot, seeking spelling enlightenment of Biblical proportions,......

4too

Post by **DarkUnderlord** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 3:54 pm

4too wrote:There are no Guidean (spelling help please!) Bibles in this motel, only a listing of cable channels. So much for spiritual guidance in our PC age.

You know, now I have this mental image of you wearing a dark trenchcoat, sitting in a chair by the door at a motel, with the body of the girl you just raped and tortured to death lying on the motel bed, as you casually smoke an expensive cigar, wondering whether you should just throw her out the back, or bury her deep in the woods with all the others.

Damn, that was a long sentence.

Anyway, point of this post? It's Gideon.

Kashluk · Post by **Kashluk** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 9:09 pm

You got weird logics, DU. 8O

And good for you, 4too. That's the spirit

Jimmyjay86 · Post by **Jimmyjay86** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 9:23 pm

Section8 wrote:I'd hate to think about what Onan the Barbarian would do in a fight.

Onan faces the evil slaver and gently whips out his throbbing sword...

Hey that would make a good CRPG - an adult themed Onan the Barbarian saga. Who wouldn't want to buy a game with nothing but excessive sexual content. Maybe Interplay can work on that if they want to sell millions of copies. Talk about your hardcore RPG.....

Crow of Ill Omen · Post by **Crow of Ill Omen** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 9:31 pm

Fallout was a great game to play, but it's not really true to say it relied on hardcore CRPG to please its fans. It did its own share of pandering. Without taking anything away from recognition of its excellent game system, there's no doubt that it played to the juvenile side of its audience: overblown drugs culture; little sexual fantansies for all those geeky RPGers who never get to see naked women in real life; power fantasies with guns and gangs, etc.

Baldurs Gate was a boring pile of shit, as were its successors and relatives. It pandered to D&D-esque fantasies, many of which are slightly tamer (and more bland) versions of the same fantasies Fallout plays up to. Those fantasies are what it's all about for most players. You just have to take a look at the topics of discussion on this or any other CRPG forum. People aren't talking about hardcore RPGing - they're talking about sex, drugs, weapons and game mechanics.

Fallout did it with better game mechanics and had a slightly less over-used setting. More or less the same goes for Arcanum.

Duck and Cover

Leon Boyarky on CRPGs and moolah

Leon Boyarky on CRPGs and moolah

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