Full armour or seperate parts?

[Doyle]

Right, but when the initial engine doesn't include the option, how likely is it to be included in the final version? Especially considering IPs financial status, do you really think they'll be able to spend the amount of time on it necessary to include TB? I personally doubt it, so it'll probably be cut to avoid dectracting from real-time.

[VasikkA]

http://www.duckandcover.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3484

Right there, from the mouth, well fingers, of JE Sawyer himself. The Jefferson engine initially made TB impossible.

Read further.

A lot of the programmers, designers, and script-folk talked about how we could find a solution that allowed the possibility of TB combat, then implemented it. Will Jefferson have turn-based combat? Mystery! But the engine has the potential for it.

[Doyle]

The engine wasn't programmed with TB in mind, so do you really think it's high on their list of features to implement in the game? I doubt it, especially considering BIS' history of half-assed releases. Maybe they'll surprise me this once.

Of course, I explained all of this in my previous posts, or didn't you take your own advice and read further?

[VasikkA]

Well, if they aren't planning to add a TB option to the game then I don't see why they even bothered to find a solution to implement it. Then engine has potential for it, why waste it?

Anyway, I don't see any point in arguing about it. As JE Sawyer said, it's a mystery.

[Doyle]

Why add it? Simple. This is their new engine. There's a damn good chance you're going to see this used to make a number of RPGs before they move on to their next, and JE has said as much. Therefore they're designing it to be flexible even as they work on Jefferson.

[Aegedius]

imo the old armor style is good but i would be fun indeed to take your helmet off or something :idea:

[Viktor]

Hmmmm. The whole idea is giving me terrible visions of just needing to find that suit arm of strength x10, & the comfy undies of rad resistance. On reflection, keep my armor as one suit thanks.

Knowing this lot, it would probably be the "Glove of Loneliness", with stain resistant fur lined palm...

[NachoMonkey]

Hmmmm. The whole idea is giving me terrible visions of just needing to find that suit arm of strength x10, & the comfy undies of rad resistance. On reflection, keep my armor as one suit thanks.

Knowing this lot, it would probably be the "Glove of Loneliness", with stain resistant fur lined palm...

Hey ! where do you get one of THOSE thi....., erm, i mean, no evil glove of loneliness.... bad glove, why would i need one of those *nervous laugh*

another thing, this aint diablo, i would prefer there be just normal partial armour with no bonus or negative bonus (eg. rust, corrosion), instead of "DEVILTHORN COAT X10STR"

[VasikkA]

Yeah, the partial armor system doesn't necessary mean Baldur's Gate-like bonuses. Some pieces of armor could have a better rad resistance than another of that type, for example. Armors cobbled together from different pieces of junk doesn't sound so bad. You would have to find a replacement for a broken piece of armor(or fix it with repair skill) if it is damaged. Certain armors, like Power armor and combat armor should come in one piece. A bit imagination, folks!

[Radoteur]

It would make more sense, and help with the scrounging/survival feel of post-apoc.

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

It would be nice to seperate the helmet from the rest of the armour, and it would be even nicer to have the game engine take into account of targeted shots and the protection given to each area of the body by the armour. But graphically I don't really mind if you can't see all the seperate parts of the armour. I'd rather they concentrate on the plot and gameplay than the look of the thing.

That said it would be an idea if instead of finding complete sets of Power Armour you only found sections at a time and then had to find someone with the knowledge to piece it all together and get it working so that you could wear it.

I would also like armour to suffer damage so that eventually it becomes useless and would need replacing, that way you wouldn't be so quick to sell off your spare sets of armour.

[NachoMonkey]

....so im guessing the concensus is ...

*make armour segmented, with exceptions to certain armours such as power armour where only helmets can be removed, or like combat armour which would be similar.

*no diablo-esque bonuses thanks,

*certain armour parts may need to be repaired or replaced, and initially when found armour could be rusted, corroded or damaged, meaning they could be useless to the scavenger getting them,

*if a certain part of the body isnt armoured and then targetted by the attacker, the victims part will be attacked as if armourless, and are more succeptable to criticals (ala, shot in an armourless arm, big damage, arm crippled, weapon dropped)...

hows that ?

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

....so im guessing the concensus is ...

*make armour segmented, with exceptions to certain armours such as power armour where only helmets can be removed, or like combat armour which would be similar.

*no diablo-esque bonuses thanks,

*certain armour parts may need to be repaired or replaced, and initially when found armour could be rusted, corroded or damaged, meaning they could be useless to the scavenger getting them,

*if a certain part of the body isnt armoured and then targetted by the attacker, the victims part will be attacked as if armourless, and are more succeptable to criticals (ala, shot in an armourless arm, big damage, arm crippled, weapon dropped)...

hows that ?

Yep something like that, the way I've always imagined it only PA and Combat armour have helmets anyway. Leather and Metal armours mainly protected the torso and nothing else. I don't think basic gloves or boots are really going to give you any viable protection in combat, but they can be useful, like the wellington boots, in protecting you against certain environmental hazards. So they could be seperate items to be found but you would only need to have them in your inventory, no need for a paper doll in Fallout 3. : )

Armour taken off someone you've just killed should almost always be badly damaged, unless you took them down with shots to an unprotected section or by some other means, such as knockout/poison gas.

[NachoMonkey]

Ace, except gas weapons shouldnt be in the game, it makes it unbalanced, maybe it can be environmentally made, but human made gas weapons would be a tough one to get, its not like where on aghani territory and we gotta watch out for chemical weaponry like VX nerve gas...

even if it was implemented power armour and god forbid environmental armour are impervious to gas attacks, thats another reason i dont like gas weapons, it means bringing back environmental armour *shakes fist*

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

Ace, except gas weapons shouldnt be in the game, it makes it unbalanced, maybe it can be environmentally made, but human made gas weapons would be a tough one to get, its not like where on aghani territory and we gotta watch out for chemical weaponry like VX nerve gas...

even if it was implemented power armour and god forbid environmental armour are impervious to gas attacks, thats another reason i dont like gas weapons, it means bringing back environmental armour *shakes fist*

Gas weapons were the first examples of weapons that wouldn't damage the armour I could think of, but you're right having gas grenades etc wouldn't really fit into the game. Though you could have a situation like on the oil rig were you could release a virus or nerve toxin into a confinded area to take out the guards, if you could get to the trigger without detection.

I wouldn't mind seeing the garrot implemented as a stealth weapon though.

[NachoMonkey]

hmmmm good point, yes, as i mentioned, the environmental gasses

a garrot would be nice, it introduces a lot of new levels of killing though, would it kill the character outright ? does the character need to be in stealth to do it ? will it only kill outright if stealth is high enough ?

its tough, people could exploit bugs in it

what i would like to see which hasnt been done, the chainsaw, in my eyes the ripper isnt a traditional chainsaw, its a miniture version, equipted one handed, which has several mini-razor sharp blades attached to a chain, kinda like a turkey carver, except the blade doesnt move up and down, whereas a chainsaw has relatively blunter pieces of steel, is heavier (2 handed), and would run on fossil fuel, making it much more powerful

:D

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

hmmmm good point, yes, as i mentioned, the environmental gasses

a garrot would be nice, it introduces a lot of new levels of killing though, would it kill the character outright ? does the character need to be in stealth to do it ? will it only kill outright if stealth is high enough ?

its tough, people could exploit bugs in it

People will exploit whatever ends up in the game, but you raise good points. I'd like to see it included, it would have to be a weapon you could only used while stealthed, and behind the intended victim. It would only kill outright if you were able to use it unnoticed, perhaps using a similar formula to the steal skill. Though there is a few changes to the steal skill I would like to see, the chance for other people to notice what you are doing, I've been caught loads of times by my victim when trying to steal something but never by their companions. In fact I'd like to see more reaction to the Players actions in the game. People will object to you going through their containers, or entering their houses but not allways and certainly not strongly enough. If you are a large party or heavily armed I'd like to see the npc's react to you as such, if not they should be more aggressive when you enter their homes. If you attempt to pick someone's pockets or pick a lock, there should be a much higher chance of a passerby seeing you, and if you do get caught or perform actions that affect you standing in town, then more people should get involved. Whether they runaway calling for help or take you on, as long as they react to what you are doing.

what i would like to see which hasnt been done, the chainsaw, in my eyes the ripper isnt a traditional chainsaw, its a miniture version, equipted one handed, which has several mini-razor sharp blades attached to a chain, kinda like a turkey carver, except the blade doesnt move up and down, whereas a chainsaw has relatively blunter pieces of steel, is heavier (2 handed), and would run on fossil fuel, making it much more powerful

:D

You can just imagine the death sequences with one of those can't you. : ) If they did implement the chainsaw then you should be able to use it to cut through doors and walls etc, if the material allowed.

[NachoMonkey]

hmmm that brings up another thought, doors and such

the only ways you could open doors in FO1/2 was with a key, if it were unlocked, if your lockpick skills were good, or if you had an explosive, grenade, molotov cocktail, what sucked in FOT was that you couldnt blow a door up :(
were theyre any weapons in FO1/2 that allowed breached entry other than explosive weapons ?

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

hmmm that brings up another thought, doors and such

the only ways you could open doors in FO1/2 was with a key, if it were unlocked, if your lockpick skills were good, or if you had an explosive, grenade, molotov cocktail, what sucked in FOT was that you couldnt blow a door up :(
were theyre any weapons in FO1/2 that allowed breached entry other than explosive weapons ?

Crowbar on some of the vault doors : )

They did have a couple of deathsprites for the wooden doors and the flyscreen door in FOT, but you'd have to make a destroyable entity which then AFAIK couldn't be opened normally as a door. Which is a real big oversight given the nature of the game. After playing JA2 I want destroyable walls as well as doors. : )

[Ninja Penguin]

the only ways you could open doors in FO1/2 was with a key, if it were unlocked, if your lockpick skills were good, or if you had an explosive, grenade,

You lie. You could attack doors in FO2. It was pretty effective, plus, it's badass kicking a door in.