Feargus speaks the bad talk again

Doyle · Post by **Doyle** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 12:18 am

People seem to think it's an all or nothing situation. You get a game that's exactly like the previous Fallouts, or you get a mainstream game. That's just not the case. All they need to do is hold true to the ideals that made Fallout stand out, they don't need to produce something that's exactly like Fallout in every respect. Unfortunately for us, BIS is in no position to do that.

danferry · Post by **danferry** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 12:22 am

I like, tacticaly speaking, turn based combat. But it isn't realistic. How many fights have you been in where you go, you hit me first, then I'll hit you, and so on. NO, you both wallop on each other at the same time.

But for winning the game, turn based is good, you have a chance of scoring a critical hit, and not even getting hit back.

Oh well, I don't know which I prefer. I guess that it depends upon the game and weapons. When you are whacking away at each other with melee weapons, its better, but when you use guns there is a different element there, I don't know. I do look forward to seeing what that would be like.

Please don't hurt me!

Mr Carrot · Post by **Mr Carrot** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 12:34 am

Thats why i found Arcanum so refreshing, its got crap graphics, but its fucking huge and not just by having "lots of repetitive levels" its got just such a vast number of intresting quests and sub plots. Gg Troika.

Doyle · Post by **Doyle** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 2:18 am

danferry wrote:I like, tacticaly speaking, turn based combat. But it isn't realistic. How many fights have you been in where you go, you hit me first, then I'll hit you, and so on. NO, you both wallop on each other at the same time.

But for winning the game, turn based is good, you have a chance of scoring a critical hit, and not even getting hit back.

Oh well, I don't know which I prefer. I guess that it depends upon the game and weapons. When you are whacking away at each other with melee weapons, its better, but when you use guns there is a different element there, I don't know. I do look forward to seeing what that would be like.

Please don't hurt me!

We need to make Section8's explanation of abstraction sticky.

requiem_for_a_starfury · Fri Feb 21, 2003 2:20 am

The one thing I like about FOT (other than the editor) is despite all it's faults and inconsistancies it tried to bring something new to the Fallout universe, rather than just another RPG where you wander around the wasteland aimlessly. If FO3 is ever made before we develop Star Trek style holodeck gameplaying I hope whatever the graphic system used they come up with something new for me to play. I'd like them to keep TB and the SPECIAL system for sure, but we've already had 2 games wandering across the desert, I'd like to see an adventure perhaps set entirely in a vault, or one of the large towns/cities from Fallout 2. Plenty of sub-quests, lots of chances for social interaction, no real world weapons and perhaps only a few limited opportunities for combat.

Bulldog · Post by **Bulldog** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 2:38 am

I think a 3D Fallout could work.

I mean really, it would add a lot to wandering the wastes, and finding new cities. Instead of a map you'd actually be exploring.

Doyle · Post by **Doyle** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 2:40 am

I hate 3D RPGs.

Red · Post by **Red** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 3:04 am

3D's unavoidable, specially for big studios...

Done right it could be ok, with a 3rd person perspective... Well, Keeping the isometric view, but in 3D...

Dungeon siege and Morrowind both looked fine and handled fine, problem was that it lacked any substance. Course it's real-time too, but that's another issue...

axelgreese · Post by **axelgreese** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 3:05 am

Doyle wrote:I hate 3D RPGs.

But is that because they're 3d?

Mad Max RW · Post by **Mad Max RW** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 3:07 am

Doyle wrote:I hate 3D RPGs.

Care to explain why? I believe Morrowind was a step in the right direction, but so much was executed poorly. They did a great job with visual immersion, unfortunately storyline and NPC's sucked. If they made something without those glaring problems it would be a brilliant game. I'm going out on a limb here, but can you imagine Fallout in Morrowind's perspective? The game would be fucking huge. It can be pulled off. You'd probably have to throw TB combat out the window. Although, a more advanced form can be made and work very well if you have multiple camera angles while in battle. Ehh, it's still never gonna happen as long as impatient little kids are the target market.

Doyle · Post by **Doyle** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 3:09 am

Let me clarify, I hate first person RPGs, which is what I believe bulldog was talking about.

axelgreese · Post by **axelgreese** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 3:09 am

TB + 1st person = No.

edit:

Bulldog wrote:I think a 3D Fallout could work.

I mean really, it would add a lot to wandering the wastes, and finding new cities. Instead of a map you'd actually be exploring.

Where does this say 1st person? I'm confused...

Mad Max RW · Post by **Mad Max RW** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 3:11 am

That's why 3rd person and the ability to switch to a top town isometric view at any time would be the perfect combination.

axelgreese · Post by **axelgreese** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 3:12 am

managing a camera = poop.

Mad Max RW · Post by **Mad Max RW** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 3:22 am

Ok, then let's go back to the ancient 2d isometric style we've seen in every single RPG ever made by Black Isle.

You see, this is the reason a Fallout 3 or any kind of decent RPG is never gonna happen. Nobody likes to make a compromise.

SuperH · Post by **SuperH** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 3:44 am

Really, I mean everyone here is always complaining that they're never gonna make fallout 3, but uh-oh there comes one tiny insignificant glimmer of hope and everyones already sure that its going to be crap.
To paraphrase Jubal Harshaw, cynicism is just about as accurate as optimism. try and keep a positive outlook chripes...

Spazmo · Post by **Spazmo** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 4:01 am

Fallout 3 with real-time combat would be Fallout 3. It'd be something like Fallout's Gate: Tactics.

Doyle · Post by **Doyle** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 4:02 am

I mean really, it would add a lot to wandering the wastes, and finding new cities. Instead of a map you'd actually be exploring.

This, to me, carries a heavy implication of first person.

Red · Post by **Red** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 4:33 am

I dunno, doesn't take much of a brain to handle a camera view...

Visibly Blizzard knew how to target games to brainless people and made their game so you couldn't move the camera.

What needs to be done is not lock the camera, but rather make sure the engine renders the scene so that with any (reasonable) camera positioning, the end-user has a global idea of what's hapenneing.

Most 3D RTS (other then Warcraft obviously) handle camera movements as would be appropriate in an RPG - and seemingly better than 3rd person views as is done in most common 3D RPGs...

axelgreese · Post by **axelgreese** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 4:54 am

Red wrote:I dunno, doesn't take much of a brain to handle a camera view...

Every single time I've ever been required to manage a camera my fun has been ruined. Needless to say I don't like it.