Cars

[Goretheglowingone]

imageshack I guess

wait a sec... yo mama drives a hearse?

yea, she has for a long time, it rides great, it will burn all those rice burners off the line and most high end exotics to , its reliable, roomy as
all hell, not body roll its flat around corners, it has the turning radius of a go cart, it gets 13mpg in the highway, its classy.

when i was a kid she used it to take me to school, it scared the crap outta
most of the kids and alot of the teachers, and you never have to worry
about it getting stolen.. even when the doors are open and the engien running with a "take me " sign on it , lol.


i my self have A blue 75 buick hearse with a 403 oldsmobile big block V8 in it, and im looking for an old caddie hearse to mabey mid 40's.

[PiP]

the ultimate hearse:


the site for you, hearse freak

[Goretheglowingone]

the ultimate hearse:


the site for you, hearse freak

seen that .


been there.

but thanks.

[sarge112]

Born to be dead

[Goretheglowingone]

Born to be dead

who are you? and why are you here... shouldn't you be at NMA or at some bethsoft fan site?

[fallout ranger]

See here how capacity can vary


:snip:

Yeah, but some of those are turbos, which complicates the quick assessment of how much power the engine makes. So a turbo I-4 will usually be in the ballpark of a NA 6. And a turbo 6, though rare, will usually be somewhere near a V8.

I've been planning to sell it for at least half a year now, but there's always something stopping me

In the market for a sedan?

[PiP]

Yeah, but some of those are turbos, which complicates the quick assessment of how much power the engine makes. So a turbo I-4 will usually be in the ballpark of a NA 6. And a turbo 6, though rare, will usually be somewhere near a V8.

no I was talking about non-turbos. I only added one turbo example to show that turbo adds even more variety, but my 3 basic examples were non-turbos.

In the market for a sedan?

what

[Goretheglowingone]

somewhere near a V8 ? that's about as vague as you can get, witch V8? non are the same and
they are wildly different from each other, please..
if you wish to compare please get your shit in order, if its not to much to ask?

[PiP]

witch V8

lol

[Goretheglowingone]

somewhere near a V8 ? that's about as vague as you can get, which V8? non are the same and
they are wildly different from each other, please..
if you wish to compare please get your shit in order, if its not to much to ask?

fixed.



NOW STOP AVOIDING THE THE QUESTION!

[PiP]

slow down cowboy, I'm not avoiding question 'cos it wasn't directed at me, but at the guy who wrote "a turbo 6, though rare, will usually be somewhere near a V8"

[fallout ranger]

Okay, here we go.



Barring some sort of massive paridigm shift hat readically increases output of internal combustion engines (DI and VVT aren't enough), the following can be said for quite some time regarding output of engines based on their cylinder count.



A 4 cylinder will usually be somewhere between 1.5-2.5 liters in capacity. Knowing that and assuming an average HP/capacity ratio of 85hp/liter across the board (for NA variants), a 4 cylinder can be assumed as having ~130-215 horsepower.

A 6 cylinder is normally 3-4 liters and has an average output of 75hp/liter, this would give it power in the range of 225-300 hp.

An 8 cylinder is usually between 4.5-6.5 liters, and has 65hp/liter. Assuming these capacities and ratios, an average V8 would have ~300-425hp.







Now, if my fellow DACers interested in this thread will notice, those have a mighty nice, orderly ascention in power when going by cylinder count:


4 cyl---130-215

6 cyl---225-300

8 cyl---300-425



I'm not saying that these are laws of power, as you will find engines from any one of these categories that are below or above each end of the power spectrum, like the LS7 with 500 hp, the porsche boxer-6 which in the 911 GT3 RS makes over 400 hp or the Honda S2000's I-4 that makes 237hp. The application of forced induction also complicates things, as for any given engine power can go up by 100 hp or more.


The point is that displacement is assumed when talking about cylinder counts, and when you assume displacement you get some sort of guess as to power.

[Goretheglowingone]

yes but it dosent apply to 67% of the US 's V8s
from 45 to 05 . like the Oldsmobile 403 com pared to to the Chevy 400, or the ford 400, or the 402 , 1 to 2 cubic inches make a massive difference, in a naturally aspirated engien.

take a look at the horse power / torque comparisons between a 351W a 351c a 351m and a Chevy 350, they vary from once side to the other massively and not only in horsepower and torque , they also wind out differently,
the only way to can logically categorise it is by brand, cubic inches, rpm, horse power, torque,
year, induction, and what country they where made for, a Aussie 351w a american 351w and a Canadian 351w are so compleetly different
that parts wont even match up correctly and their all over the scales.


so.. basically... id dont know.. i kinda ran outta steam. lol


i think my point was, dont generalise, its leads to you making an ass outta yourself..

[Dreadnought]

I want a flying Saucer. Srsly

[PiP]

first off, a disclaimer: I'm goig to talk about petrol(gasoline)-fuelled non-turbo-charged engines here (mind you, about a half of cars in Europe are turbo-diesels but I want to limit down the spectrum so we don't get lost in too many variations)

A 4 cylinder will usually be somewhere between 1.5-2.5 liters in capacity. Knowing that and assuming an average HP/capacity ratio of 85hp/liter across the board (for NA variants), a 4 cylinder can be assumed as having ~130-215 horsepower.

A 6 cylinder is normally 3-4 liters and has an average output of 75hp/liter, this would give it power in the range of 225-300 hp.

An 8 cylinder is usually between 4.5-6.5 liters, and has 65hp/liter. Assuming these capacities and ratios, an average V8 would have ~300-425hp.

4 cyl---130-215

6 cyl---225-300

8 cyl---300-425

I don't know that much about America (I guess Gore can handle that), but I can write a bit about Europe.

I think now we want to discuss what's widely used and not some super-powerful units so I'll use examples of some of the most popular cars in Europe;
1 very popular German make, 1 French, and 1 Japanese: a small model and a big/mid-size model from each. (data is probably valid for cars not from the latest generation)

Volkswagen: Golf, Passat:
4-cylinder units: 1.4L/75hp - 2.0L/102or115hp (53.5hp/L - 57.5hp/L) average 55.5hp/L

Renault: Clio, Laguna:
1.2L/60hp - 2.0L/140hp (50hp/L - 70hp/L) av. 60hp/L (1.1L is rare)
(mystery here: 2.0L is 140hp but 2.0turbo is 135hp )

Toyota: Corolla, Avensis:
1.1L/60hp - 2.4L/163hp (54.5hp/L - 68hp/L) av. 61hp/L
although typically (1.1 and 2.4 are rare) :
1.3L/75hp - 2.0L/147hp (58hp/L - 73.5hp/L) av. 61hp/L

Altogether, for popular European cars, 4-cylinder non-turbo petrol engines have 1.2-2.0L displacement (or even 1.1-2.4L) and 60-147horsepower (or even 163hp), hp/L ratio ranging from 50 to 73.5hp/L.

Average hp/L ratio for this group (I chose to add the 6 ratios and divide by 6) is 60.5hp/L

So basically what I calculated doesn't look like what you wrote, F.ranger

The point is that displacement is assumed when talking about cylinder counts, and when you assume displacement you get some sort of guess as to power

as you could notice (see some of my posts before for example), displacement-power ratio alone is quite varied. Then if you make allowances for cylinders'number-displacement ratio being so very different for different models (and you should make), talking in terms of cylinders' number to indicate power is far too fucking vague, imprecise and a wee silly

[fallout ranger]

mind you, about a half of cars in Europe are turbo-diesels

Lucky...


I was just getting at the fact that cylinder count is a generalized statistic that give you a good starting point of where an engine places performace-wise.

talking in terms of cylinders' number to indicate power is far too fucking vague, imprecise and a wee silly

Really? Low displacement engines make higher horsepower/liter numbers than engines with larger displacement and the same cylinder count (like the 2.0L Honda 4 in the Civic Si that makes 200 hp, or the as in the Caparo T1, a 3.5L V8 that makes 575 hp). This is because the steps that are taken to increase displacement (larger bore or stroke) result in more parascitic loss through friction and inertia (heavier piston). So if you divide the exact same displacement among six or 12 cylinders in engines with identical technology, the pistons and valves in the six will be larger, heavier, and hence unable to move as fast as those in the 12, so peak horsepower (the product of torque times rpm divided by 5252) will be less.

[PiP]

Really?

yes

Low displacement engines make higher (...)/liter numbers

isn't it the same?
or do you mean fuel consumption by "liter numbers"?

Low displacement engines make higher hp (...) than engines with larger displacement and the same cylinder count

let me get this straight, you're saying that a bigger engine is less powerful than a smaller one with the same number of cylinders? uhhh I don't know what to say to this rly...

Let me just say this one more time: if you only state the number of cylinders, it's a very poor indication of the engine's power.
Even the very limited selection of cars I described (6 popular European cars, 4-cylinder non-turbo petrol engines) showed that a 4-cylinder unit can have from 60 to as much as 163hp.
Imagine how much this spectrum would widen if you took into consideration diesels, turbos (both petrol and diesel), and some less popular models.
So despite the very general rule that more pistons = more power you can easily find an R4 that's more powerful than a V6. And among R4's you'll easily find some units that are more than TWICE as powerful than some weaker units in the same category.

[fallout ranger]

you're saying that a bigger engine is less powerful than a smaller one with the same number of cylinders? uhhh I don't know what to say to this rly...

The actual quote read:

Low displacement engines make higher horsepower/liter numbers than engines with larger displacement and the same cylinder count

It says what it says, it's not my fault you didn't understand.

Let me just say this one more time: if you only state the number of cylinders, it's a very poor indication of the engine's power.

I didn't say it was the best, well maybe I did, but it's a good guesstimate as to power and torque output, because it is ASSUMED that an 8 is bigger than a 4.

So despite the very general rule that more pistons = more power you can easily find an R4 that's more powerful than a V6.

I never disputed that, look at GMs 2.0L Ecotec Turbo DI 4 in the Sky/Solstice/Opel GT that makes 260 hp, then look at, *gag* a 1982 Corvette's l83 with 200 hp.

[Redeye]

Golf's are cute.




Daihatsu Sneaker is just a wart.

[Goretheglowingone]

please let us not forget the wankel engien....

ok... never mind.. forget it.. i cant remember anything useful about it.. lol