Duck and Cover

Shadowrun sucks any way around it. The tabletop, I find, isn't very interesting. I'd rather play 3.5 or Dark Heresy or Deadlands or Serenity or something.

The only reason I don't find the tabletop more interesting, is because of the magical element. Otherwise, I think it's a great setting. That's just me though.

Also - have you ever tried Pathfinder, Senister? You mentioned 3.5, so I figured it might be up your alley.

I haven't had an opportunity to play Pathfinder yet, the group that I played 3.5 with (they were also the first group I ever played D&D with) didn't play it, so I never had a real chance to.

I've found a really good homebrew STALKER RPG that me and a friend have had to tweak some, but its d20 and overall pretty solid if you know the game setting well enough.

karouak wrote:Franchise is a license.

That's not what's on the table here. It's video games whose sequels are shit and/or different genres than their predecessors, made using an otherwise obsolete title for free PR. How the hell do you equate to that a series of completely unrelated games, none of them sequels to another, each made by a different company based on a P&P toolset that already existed in the first place? And if you wanna complain they ruined "it" (whatever "it" is) I can't see how that's relevant now when all the "series" is is 1 good game (SNES) and 3 shit ones, starting as early as one year after the SNES with Shadowrun MegaDrive.

How you managed to survive for 15 minutes without a boot up your arse after you parachuted in here and started to correct our lowly islander english is what surprises me. Methinks Walter is getting the poon-a-nee. Fess up brah

karouak wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_OjIZBhbis

Franchise is a license.

Man, that video is just bizarre.

Everything went south with the advent of cross-platform development.

I knew something was seriously wrong when Morrowind came out, it reeked of that capitalist lowest common denominator dredging strategy that has reduced PC gaming to what it is now.

I'm sorry, but if you were introduced to gaming in the early 00s, you're part of the fucking problem.

You're the demographic that doesn't know what's good for them, games are becoming less complex, more repetitive and less enjoyable because game developers keep striving to push ever lower to make as much money as possible.

I find myself enjoying games less now than ten years ago, however its not because I've outgrown them, they're becoming simplified, and formulaic.

Burnov wrote: I find myself enjoying games less now than ten years ago, however its not because I've outgrown them, they're becoming simplified, and formulaic.

Totally agree man. I was out of console gaming for a looong time. Anyway, recently bought my kids a Wii, which granted, is a few years old at this point.

So, I wanted to find some decent games for them or myself, and...

it's the same old, tired, shallow shit it's always been, since NES days, just better looking.

I'd find these highly praised games, and they all left me thinking "is this really the best there is?" They are so superficial, formulaic and simplistic compared to PC games, from even 10 years.

How the fuck is side-scrolling still a genre on a AAA console in 2011?
The gameplay in all of them is still the same.

It's just so stagnant.
And you're right, we can only blame the people who continue to buy this shit for them flooding the market with more of the same.

Consumers need to be more demanding and discerning, the problem is... well, walk around a mall or EB or walmart in America, and this is the target market.

Why should developers challenge themselves or be creative, when it's profitable to repackage the same shit over and over again, slap some shiny IP on it and market the hell out of it?

Cimmerian Nights wrote: Totally agree man. I was out of console gaming for a looong time. Anyway, recently bought my kids a Wii, which granted, is a few years old at this point.

The Wii would be fantastic system for little children or very casual gamers if it weren't for the ungodly amounts of shovelware that have deluged the market.

Don't get me wrong, I like some things about consoles, but when I think of consoles I think of: Fighting games, console RPGs (which are too grindey and repetitive for my liking), shooters like Ace Combat, and beat em up's like God Hand.

The console is a specific place for the kind of games that work well on that platform.

So, I wanted to find some decent games for them or myself, and...

it's the same old, tired, shallow shit it's always been, since NES days, just better looking.

Some of it gets old really fast, the best part about the wii is the fact that it can serve as a centerpiece for social interaction.

I know I have some very good memories of being up half the night, drinking and playing Wario Ware with some buddies.

But it wasn't the same kind of encompassing experience that you get from a PC game.

We used to have LAN parties as well in which we'd play all sorts of games.

Certain types of games belong on a console, PC-type games do not, at all. And that's where my complaint is.

In trying to bring the enjoyment of PC type games to the masses, they're horribly watered down, and before you know it these developers are now more obsessed with the hollow gratification of pandering to these ignorant fools who will buy anything because they don't know any better.

I'd find these highly praised games, and they all left me thinking "is this really the best there is?" They are so superficial, formulaic and simplistic compared to PC games, from even 10 years.

Well, for me its easy to place them into context when they're the type of game that doesn't even belong on a PC, I can take it or leave it.

However when the console gaming demographic starts straight out RUINING my favorite franchises because they'll literally consume anything that's when I start getting annoyed.

Seriously, console gamers are at least 10 years behind PC gamers in terms of what they expect from games. Halo is simply Quake 2 repackaged for a new generation, I've been there, I've done that, and it was done better.

Consumers need to be more demanding and discerning, the problem is... well, walk around a mall or EB or walmart in America, and this is the target market.

PC gamers always have been, because they were a generation of gamers that not only played more complicated games, buy were required to jump through a number of (in relative terms) difficult hoops just to get the game installed and running.

You couldn't be an idiot and a PC gamer back in the day, if you were an idiot, it meant that somebody was doing everything for you.

Why should developers challenge themselves or be creative, when it's profitable to repackage the same shit over and over again, slap some shiny IP on it and market the hell out of it?

Hello CoD series.

No, I hate to say it but the newly introduced console gaming demographic has the collective memory of a goldfish and as long as they're distracted with ridiculous trivialities that will never change now.

While the PC is my platform of choice, the best game I've played in recent years would have to be Demon's Souls. That may well be due to the fact that the PC sees little else than x-box ports these days and that I've been starved for a game that doesn't hold your dick for you when you piss, but the point still stands regardless.

You know, this is probably the only place in the internet where one can watch a petit discussion like the one above without it getting interrupted by a cretin 12 year old accusing both guys of wearing rose-tinted glasses. (my favorite candidate for most retarded argument in an internet debate)

Oh DaC

I don't know - I've been a victim of rose-tinted glasses myself. When I was younger, I loved Monkey Island. Due to technological advance, the original version wouldn't run on modern hardware, so when Lucas Arts upgraded the graphics and re-released it a year or two ago for $10 I bought it.

It wasn't nearly as great as I remembered it. Conversely, I can load up Fallout 1 or 2 and get the same feeling I had playing them 13 years ago.

I think it's fairly obvious (at least to an adult) a 30 year old doesn't look at something the way a 10 year old does but does that change the game any? You can't really compare how you as a 30 year old look at Monkey Island to how a kid looks at whatever PnC came out today, can you?

You can, however, compare how well Monkey stood up to its peers (and how great it was to you then), how big a jump technically and thematically it was, to how today's PnC stands against his (and how good/bad it is for kids now) and how it's barely an improvement on an old formula, which is, I think, the heart of the debate. It's that the games evolved almost exclusively in presentation terms (graphics, sound) and not much else, improve one point, screw up 2 others. And, like you said, F1/2 are pretty much the all the proof you need.

To reiterate, I don't think it is worse than you remember it being. I think you liked it less than when you were young, and you should. You're older (and more cynical because of it) whilst it is no longer relevant or fresh, but neither change history.

RPG wise there isn't a thing on the radar popping up that looks interesting. I know there are new Metro and STALKER games in production, and RAGE is looking pretty good too. There was a new Mechwarrior game in production but I think they got into some legal problems and its been put on hold. If anyone knows anything about that I'd be interested to hear it.

as long as the persuadatron can be used with the romances in the upcoming syndicate revival my faith in modern day gaming will be fortified even rejuvenated

have faith childeren

Oh dearie me.

Well, there is that RPG-ish shooter EYE-Divine Cybermancy but it looks so unfinished/unpolished that I'm pretty sure it'd take more time to "learn it" than to actually enjoy it.

Alister McFap II Esq. wrote:

Cimmerian Nights wrote:

Aaaamg! Looks like ur ma Dreddypoos!

This make me sad

Yonmanc wrote:Hmm, correct me if I'm wrong, but the one on the left is the Duke Nukem 3D prison level right?

Huh, Was thinking Marathon myself.

Tofu Man wrote:Oh dearie me.

Well, there is that RPG-ish shooter EYE-Divine Cybermancy but it looks so unfinished/unpolished that I'm pretty sure it'd take more time to "learn it" than to actually enjoy it.

It's a pretty chill game. I haven't played in several months and was able to jump back into it today. Learn how shit works by screwing around in singleplayer then join the real game in online coop. There's a couple non-laggy dedicated servers always running.

Supposedly the developers are still working on a big expansion pack. So that's good.