Two years on VAN BUREN IS ALLLIIIIVE

[S4ur0n27]

Attacks toward a website, toward a person and toward an habit, isn't the same thing. Relax, Odin.

[DJ Slamák]

Teatime + Odin =

[hat_man99]

Hey the like ness is uncanny, where ever did you come across such a desplay of energetic wit?

[Mr. Teatime]

Lies

[POOPERSCOOPER]

Stop feeding the fallout community, odin. We aren't dogs, just give us all the info you have at once instead of corpse humping like a swell guy.

[Blargh]

Lies

*golf claps*

Masterful defense, Teatime.

[Fez]

The news post was worth it to see the tears. Dry your eyes, mate. The funeral is long over, you have to learn to let go.

[Koki]

Lies

*golf claps*

Masterful defense, Teatime.

Not as good as 'NO U' though.

[Briosafreak]

• It's great but seriously, what's the point?

It has many points like:

[*]It's like someone's hoping Van Buren will be made by a mod team or something. If all of this info is released by the time Bethesda's FO3 is out, it's likely that might happen.

[*]It's an interesting doc from a design perspective. Lets us in on what real developers get up to.

You answered your own question.

[*]It's 4 years old.
That design doc is 4 years old.
[*]

Read the doc again. Quote from the first page:

DENVER/DOG CITY


Version 1.0

7/24/2003

This revision isn`t four years old, as you can clearly see.

[Ausir]

J.E. Sawyer comments at one point that he divided the US into 13 zones. Isn't it a bit of inconsistency? Chris Avellone thought initially that there are 13 stars on the US flag, but it was later proved that there were only 11 of them. See:

http://vault.duckandcover.cx/index.php? ... of_America

[Mismatch]

J.E. Sawyer comments at one point that he divided the US into 13 zones. Isn't it a bit of inconsistency? Chris Avellone thought initially that there are 13 stars on the US flag, but it was later proved that there were only 11 of them. See:

http://vault.duckandcover.cx/index.php? ... of_America

and the plot thickens

[DarkUnderlord]

[*]It's like someone's hoping Van Buren will be made by a mod team or something. If all of this info is released by the time Bethesda's FO3 is out, it's likely that might happen.

[*]It's an interesting doc from a design perspective. Lets us in on what real developers get up to.

You answered your own question.

Not really, no. For a mod team to work with it, they can't use it in dribs and drabs and completely start again every time a new wonderful Van Buren design doc is miraculously pulled from the arse of whoever's releasing these. Unless you really do want to wait for FO3 to come out. Also, as for design docs, it came waaay too late for FMF and in fact, every other Fallout mod. There are also other web-sites out there which have a wide range of similar information.

So what's the point in dragging this out? As I said, I like the Van Buren stuff - it's interesting - but now we're scrounging up design docs? It's getting beyond a joke.

This revision isn`t four years old, as you can clearly see.

Sorry, 2 years old. My bad.

[Brother None]

Not really, no. For a mod team to work with it, they can't use it in dribs and drabs and completely start again every time a new wonderful Van Buren design doc is miraculously pulled from the arse of whoever's releasing these. Unless you really do want to wait for FO3 to come out. Also, as for design docs, it came waaay too late for FMF and in fact, every other Fallout mod. There are also other web-sites out there which have a wide range of similar information.

So what's the point in dragging this out? As I said, I like the Van Buren stuff - it's interesting - but now we're scrounging up design docs? It's getting beyond a joke.

Maybe yes, maybe no.

A lot of you DaC people have been around as long as I have, you must remember the days surrounding the release of Fallout 2 up until the time of Tactics, in other words the days before the Fallout fanbase became embittered by countless abuse. In those days people drew up fanart and fanfics of bad to mediocre to good quality and other people were interested in it, hell at times it even made the fan-news, just like those plastic BoS and Enclave models make it to NMA's news now. Even apart from talk about mods (and you're being odd, DU, it's not like all Fallout mods that'll ever be made are already in production, not to mention how Briosa was not referring to direct events or settings from the docs, but rather the way the design shows Fallout's open-path sequences and good-evil ambiguity), there is a simple value of interest in the Fallout world here. Not only is this much like fan-made documentation of Fallout and fun to read, but it was also planned to be a part of the Fallout canon and for fanatic Fallout fans it is interesting for that alone. Though it is not canon, obviously, as the game was never released (good thing too, bloody space rockets)

Hell, even Fallout GURPS was news when more about it became known and you're not ragging on NMA for hosting the Fallout GURPS site, despite the fact that that is even more dead than Van Buren.

Is all Fallout news automatically newsworthy? Maybe. I would say it is better than posting endless ragging on Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel would be. Hell, for that matter, we are, after all, Fallout sites, don't you think our reader-base is happier to see "Van Buren design doc" than "Auto Assault previewed again; game looks like crap". We get spoonfed bits of crap from uninteresting to barely interesting games like Auto Assault, Hard Truck and Hellgate: London day by day for lack of better news. Is Van Buren news the real ultimate news? Hell no. Is it a damn shite better than another Auto Assault preview? Yes.

In fact, we all know that's not the issue here. If DaC hadn't been in a spot of trouble around the Van Buren days and had been able to follow VB as actively as NMA had, we wouldn't be having this trouble. We would both be releasing Van Buren info and nobody would be complaining. Let's be honest here, we all know a part of both DaC and NMA's readerbase feels the corpse is dead and should be left to rot, another part feels the trickle should stop and all info should just be released in a flood (which isn't really possible, for a myriad of reasons, and I'm not bullshitting you people here), but we also both have significant portions (the biggest portions, probably) of readers who like reading what-could-have-beens, who are interested to see what BIS devs envisioned as the future path of the Fallout game and to use it to speculate on possible mods or, gasp, even Bethesda's stuff.

Let's be honest here. Do you have a reason to rag on the corpse-pumping of Van Buren? Sure enough. Is there a real reason not to release Van Buren info? No, there isn't. There is no reason to praise it to high heaven anymore either. Van Buren is a long time ago and the info isn't worth as much as the screenshots or info released right after the game died, but does that mean it is completely worthless? No, it doesn't, Frith be damned, it's still an interesting read and the only stuff on Fallout that can be labelled in any way semi-official right now. Fuck me, it can be compared directly to the Fallout Bible, written by the everything-but-a-Fallout-guru MCA, but still received with great joy by the Fallout community for lack of anything else. Do I like the fact that we lack any other useful news? No, I don't. I valued DaC interview with Todd Howard more than I do this Word-document, but we can't get any more info out of Bethesda right now, so this Word-doc is all we have.

It's your full right not to feel like it's a big deal that another design doc is released. It is also your full right to ciriticise the slow trickle of info or criticise the whole Van Buren business. I do like to expect some brotherly courtesy and professionalism from an old site like DaC, though. This is news on the frontpage of your site and Frith's Eyes, this looks really, really bad. Writing dead dead dead dead dead over and over in your newspost does not look professional and it also lacks any razor-sharp wit necessary to make a good journalistic comment site*. It looks unprofessional, childish and it makes it look like you harbour a spiteful resentment against us which has nothing to do with Van Buren. Whether or not you do harbour such a resentment is not really relevant, in any case there's no reason to make your readers suffer under it.

So please, as a show of professional courtesy, stop the bloody mud-slinging. Shit, we're like the Judean People's Front and the People's Front of Judea, while people who want to rape Fallout are the Romans, but we can't stop them because of our infighting. Well knock it off!

* it seems you're taking this cue from the Codex. Well don't. The Codex is a good site, but their lack of success stems from the fact that they cover relatively little news and rather than giving good, clear and thought-out opinions to their newsposts, they add one or two snide comments, which is neither informative nor amusing.

[Mr. Teatime]

This is news on the frontpage of your site and Frith's Eyes, this looks really, really bad. Writing dead dead dead dead dead over and over in your newspost does not look professional and it also lacks any razor-sharp wit necessary to make a good journalistic comment site*. It looks unprofessional, childish and it makes it look like you harbour a spiteful resentment against us which has nothing to do with Van Buren. Whether or not you do harbour such a resentment is not really relevant, in any case there's no reason to make your readers suffer under it.

So please, as a show of professional courtesy, stop the bloody mud-slinging. Shit, we're like the Judean People's Front and the People's Front of Judea, while people who want to rape Fallout are the Romans, but we can't stop them because of our infighting. Well knock it off!

* it seems you're taking this cue from the Codex. Well don't. The Codex is a good site, but their lack of success stems from the fact that they cover relatively little news and rather than giving good, clear and thought-out opinions to their newsposts, they add one or two snide comments, which is neither informative nor amusing.

So sue me. Saint handed control of DaC over to me and got DU to help out at the same time. If it wasn't for myself, DU, king of creation, lark, and others, this site would be dead. I post news in the style I like to post it, and if you think that "looks bad", well, screw you, buddy, I enjoy it.I really don't care that we're not visited by 100,000,000 people a second. We're a community and serving a community first and foremost, and the fact that we're a lot more active than a year and a half ago shows we're doing something right.

Of course, I often try and say how I feel in my news posts, and often people disagree. you're free to bitch about it in the comments thread, like is happening now, and it won't get locked and hidden away. Sometimes people get pissed off, well that makes things more interesting really. Anyway, you think it looks bad... oh well. That's what the comments thread is for. It's just how I feel, and I'd happily write it up again, to be perfectly honest. I admit i could have written it in a slightly less inflamatory way, but that's not really my style. If you want news posts written for drama's sake, though, go hire exitium.

[Nicolai]

I don't think that I would have bothered going through all the VB stuff if it had been released all at once.. When it's just a new picture or a design doc every once in a while, it's all good.

[Spazmo]

I would have probably enjoyed going through VB material all at once if it came in a box I'd paid $50 for and was presented in an interactive fashion as a computer game. Presented in this fashion, it's pointless.

And if "successful website" means sucking up to developers, posting reviews even shittier than the ones we have now and generally trying to be as close to IGN as can be, I'd rather work for a hundred sites that fail.

[S4ur0n27]

Internet drama

[Brother None]

And if "successful website" means sucking up to developers, posting reviews even shittier than the ones we have now and generally trying to be as close to IGN as can be, I'd rather work for a hundred sites that fail.

That's your perception of choices? Either you're like RPGCodex or you're a fanboi-site that sucks up to the big boys? Right, well, that explains everything.

[Kashluk]

Internet drama

You sucked my toe right there buddy.

[Alexander]

Internet drama D;

Its so funny... everytime there comes some "new" Van Buren concept-art or a screenshot or a peice of the story, like this one is, and Teatime posts some news on the frontpage about that this is necrophilia (mmm... tasty) and so on, there also comes a bunch of assholes from NMA and start pointless debates on how wrong this forum is and shit. They are so predictable?
Haha... I remember the time when the all-new nazi pope got elected(?) and there came some idiot from over there saying that "one can't compare pope to nazi... bla bla".
Last time there were some Van Buren concept pictures of Mad Max and gayporn, Kharn came and posted so much crap that I almost drowned (remarkable for DAC?). Well, anyhow, how much of an asshole does one have to be to become moderator/admin at NMA? I was thinking maybe I can become one, eh?
By the highway, Van Buren-guys: I recommend you watch this movie. It is a love story. Could be interpreted as an allegorical tale of your praising of this "game". It is an all-time favourite of mine. (Do not forget to pick up the sequel too, it could be important if Bathesda fail) Available at your local video boutique!

P.S. I did not read this thread... it is the same anyways.