1000 articles at The Vault

Brother None · Post by **Brother None** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:45 pm

King of Creation wrote:What's stopping you from writing up some great articles?

I probably will, though I don't know if they'll be great, but no matter how co-operative I get, the big man on top is not in favour of the whole thing.

Mr. Teatime · Post by **Mr. Teatime** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:46 pm

Anyone can write in it. I am not going to write a personal invitation to anyone saying 'come and write in this wiki'. It's a wiki, the whole point is that it's open to anyone. It's hosted on DaC, which seems to be what you're complaining about?

Ausir · Post by **Ausir** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:49 pm

Kharn wrote:
Killzig wrote: Sure thing, but not exactly. When the wiki started and still now there were/are two major Fallout sites. The wiki was started, very smartly, by one individually. That's not the same as having a project like WikiPedia itself, it's very clearly *yours*. You call it "our Vault", "our wikipedia", "our project", not "a Fallout project" or "The Fallout Fans wikipedia"
Well, it's mostly because it's hosted at DAC. And you could always interpret "ours" as "the community's" . And at first we didn't even know if it will even work out, so we didn't create a special separate account for it so that NMA'ers don't have to contribute to a DAC project... And anyway, I'm the admin, not Teatime. But if it started at DAC, moving it to an independent account wouldn't be too fair to DAC, would it?

Brother None · Post by **Brother None** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:51 pm

Ausir wrote:Having "Fallout" in the url certainly helps in Google positioning.

nma.com was taken

Aptyp wrote:They are content with being "smarter than those morons at DAC". I'm sick of NMA treating DAC like a landfill.

Somehow I don't think the blade is as single-edged as that

Not sure what you mean by landfill

Teatime wrote:Anyone can write in it. I am not going to write a personal invitation to anyone saying 'come and write in this wiki'. It's a wiki, the whole point is that it's open to anyone. It's hosted on DaC, which seems to be what you're complaining about?

I'm not complaining, Teatime, I'm simply explaining why this Wiki stands as a Duck and Cover-alone project and not a broad Fallout fandom-project. You treat it as your own personal project, very distinctly calling it "our wikipedia" and never discussing it with anyone from NMA (again, you can't treat it as Wikipedia as the situation is somewhat different, look a few posts up), because that's what it is. That doesn't make it attractive for Odin to encourage posters to add to "the other site's" wikip.

It should be possible to make it a cross-site wiki, but you never tried. Again, I'm not complaining about it, I'm not saying you should, the wiki is doing great, as can be seen by this newspost, and you don't have to feel obliged to do anything, as it was your idea.

Killzig · Post by **Killzig** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:54 pm

Kharn wrote: Sure thing, but not exactly. When the wiki started and still now there were/are two major Fallout sites. The wiki was started, very smartly, by one individually.

Actually the Wiki is more or less the brain child of Dan Wood. This is what he envisioned the Fallout Bible being. Not MCA's mess of a FAQ. Kreegle also had the uberFAQ years ago back on Fallout2.net.. its an evolution.

That's not the same as having a project like WikiPedia itself, it's very clearly *yours*. You call it "our Vault", "our wikipedia", "our project", not "a Fallout project" or "The Fallout Fans wikipedia"

Yawn. So because its hosted at DAC you feel like you can't contribute? That's just childish.

Honestly, I have no problem with that whatsoever. I've been contemplating registering and adding myself, though I never have for some odd reason, but I'm just saying that with this attitude you're not going to draw anyone over from our side or get Odin to encourage people to participate.

God forbid you cop attitude with that rushmore sized chip on your shoulder and back handed compliments like your opening comments in this thread.

Especially since it's totally DaC-centered. You avoid linking to NMA as much as you can, even when using the Van Buren design docs that came via us.

Uhm... that's interesting considering the articles usually say "SOURCE: NMA" complete with the whole hyperlink doohickey that lets users visit your site once they click those words. Fact is, aside from the steady leaks of shitty design docs, there's no reason to link NMA.

Ausir · Post by **Ausir** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 5:58 pm

We don't avoid linking to NMA. See some examples:
http://vault.duckandcover.cx/index.php? ... en#Sources
http://vault.duckandcover.cx/index.php? ... wn#Sources
http://vault.duckandcover.cx/index.php? ... ulder_Dome
http://vault.duckandcover.cx/index.php?title=Hoover_Dam

We didn't link to NMA in some of the articles based on the new leaked documents, because the documents themselves will be in separate articles, so we make wikilinks to them. But I can always add also external links to NMA there.

We certainly link more to NMA than to DAC.

Mr. Teatime · Post by **Mr. Teatime** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:00 pm

So what I'm getting here is that Odin doesn't want people from NMA to post on it, and that you want the thing moved to a seperate server so that you can lower yourselves to grace it with your presence?

It's a wiki. You can edit it if you want, or you can act all high and mighty and treat it as a threat. Your choice, and I don't really care which you choose, but be clear: the people making the fuss here are Odin (apparently) and NMA, not DaC. Also note, that there are NMA posters, people who never post on DaC, making great contributions to the wiki (they're even admins on there) - it's just the management - who 'know better'? lolslz - who seem to feel threatened.

Brother None · Post by **Brother None** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:04 pm

Killzig wrote:Actually the Wiki is more or less the brain child of Dan Wood. This is what he envisioned the Fallout Bible being. Not MCA's mess of a FAQ. Kreegle also had the uberFAQ years ago back on Fallout2.net.. its an evolution.

Yes, yes, I said wiki, specifically, not wiki-esque things.

Killzig wrote:Yawn. So because its hosted at DAC you feel like you can't contribute? That's just childish.

teatime wrote:So what I'm getting here is that Odin doesn't want people from NMA to post on it, and that you want the thing moved to a seperate server so that you can lower yourselves to grave it with your presence?

Would you stop that? This isn't a "big drama" thing, SO STOP TRYING TO DRAMA-WHORE IT.

If you don't care about NMA (as a site, not as loose individuals) participation, fine, then that's the end of that.

And stop trying to stuff words into my mouth. I don't care which server it's on, I don't post on it because it's hosted on DaC, neither of those things are the issue

Also, "threaten" is a rather odd term to use. How could it be a threat? It's structure is so wildly different that now NMA and DaC offer two completely different services to users, meaning we're now no longer competitors on the site front, only on the news front.

Killzig wrote:God forbid you cop attitude with that rushmore sized chip on your shoulder and back handed compliments like your opening comments in this thread.

My compliments weren't meant to be backhanded. I complimented it and pointed out it has a way to go, like all wiki's do by definition.

Ausir wrote:because the documents themselves will be in separate articles

They will? Hmmmm...

Ausir · Post by **Ausir** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:07 pm

They will? Hmmmm...

Well, I know they were given to you by your top secrat source, so you own it in a way, but it's not as if they aren't copyrighted by Interplay just like every other source document at The Vault (holodisks, etc.), so I don't see why we shouldn't. And we'll credit NMA as the source anyway, linking to the original Word document there.

Brother None · Post by **Brother None** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:10 pm

Ausir wrote:Well, I know they were given to you by your top secrat source, but it's not as if they aren't copyrighted by Interplay just like every other source document at The Vault (holodisks, etc.), so I don't see why we shouldn't. And we'll credit NMA as the source anyway, linking to the original Word document there.

I know, the problem here is that those documents are copyright Interplay and in the possession of Bethesda, who's never been too friendly about us leaking it. For friendly relations with them I'd disadvise you to copy them to your Wiki.

But then again, it's opensource, so they can't be mad about it

Ausir · Post by **Ausir** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:14 pm

Well, if the stuff is already leaked and we use it as a source in other articles as well, I don't see how copying the whole document will make it any worse. If we have articles about all Van Buren locations based on these leaks, there isn't much of a difference, is there? It's not as if it matters much whether it's downloadable or available on-line. For now we'll probably have articles about these documents, since I'm too lazy to copy it all anyway.

Brother None · Post by **Brother None** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:15 pm

Yeh, fair play. Just beware of the thundering wrath of BethSoft.

PS:

Ausir wrote:Well, I know they were given to you by your top secrat source, so you own it in a way

No, man, definitely not, nobody owns it but Beth and Iplay. Though linking it back to us as "the leak source" would be mighty friendly, good courtesy.

Mr. Teatime · Post by **Mr. Teatime** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:23 pm

Kharn wrote:No, man, definitely not, nobody owns it but Beth and Iplay. Though linking it back to us as "the leak source" would be mighty friendly, good courtesy.

Go edit it in yourself? No one will ban you, I promise.

Megatron · Post by **Megatron** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:33 pm

If you want more nma involvement why don't you promote it and talk about it on your forums? You don't need to convince anyone here to add to it thankyouverymuch.

Ausir · Post by **Ausir** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:51 pm

Well, I don't really blame you, as some DAC people would probably react similarly if NMA made their own wiki first. You can always contribute under a different nickname so that Odin doesn't see it

.

Brother None · Post by **Brother None** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:51 pm

Megatron wrote:If you want more nma involvement why don't you promote it and talk about it on your forums?

'cause I ain't the boss of NMA, foo'

S4ur0n27 · Post by **S4ur0n27** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:53 pm

The NMA staff needs Odin's approval to add to the wiki, and Odin won't give it because he's not invited

Poor kid.

Ausir · Post by **Ausir** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:56 pm

Well, at least a small news post about it would be nice. You can even say that it's DEAD DEAD DEAD DEAD if it makes you happy

.

ApTyp · Post by **ApTyp** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:02 pm

This is sad. Odin is an asshole. Maybe it's time to leave NMA?

Brother None · Post by **Brother None** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:02 pm

The NMA staff can do what it wants, Susan, as Teatime said some of them are registered and contributing, it's more about site-wide coverage.

Ausir, I have posted on the wiki before, noticeably when it started and when it was restarted after the server troubles. I'll see about posting a congratulations-newspost.

APTYP, it's not that bad. Odin's not really forbidding anything, he's just not going to OFFER to publically support the wiki via NMA and encourage people to add to it. I don't think you can expect the initiative to come from us on this, since it's your project.