Fallout d20 Updates

[King of Creation]

If the pdf isn't working, try going to the GCG website, and clicking on the link on their page. I dunno...it worked fine for me.

[Rosh]

If the pdf isn't working, try going to the GCG website, and clicking on the link on their page. I dunno...it worked fine for me.

It worked for a while until it just wouldn't really load, and the PDF looks to be poorly-constructed on top of that. I got a copy early after the announcement, and did what GluttonCrapper was too lazy to do - take five minutes to convert it to a png image. On my craptop, when these people apparently don't have the five computers required for them to make a website not look like total ClipArt ass.

[vx trauma]

looks like jinxed buttfuck. it'll end in tears and vapor. :sad_kurtz:

[Rosh]

Just read on, it gets better.

I'm still waiting for this whole "evolution" thing. Maybe GluttonCreeper would care to explain the lack of anything resembling such on their part?

[PiP]

so you're 'lucky' when you move and the enemies are 'jinxed' when you run outta APs.. Is there a drawback?

But some of the traits you frowned upon are pretty much standard, like trading 'combat' stats for 'non-combat' stats, eg. 'physically fit' or 'large body' - pfft not much to talk about

[atoga]

PiP speaks the truth. However, the problem with the traits, as far as I can tell, is not that they need more testing (for the most part), it's just that they're boring & uninspired compared to the oh-so-wacky traits of SPECIAL.

[Brother None]

But some of the traits you frowned upon are pretty much standard, like trading 'combat' stats for 'non-combat' stats, eg. 'physically fit' or 'large body' - pfft not much to talk about

Standard for what?

In Fallout (1)'s 16 traits, the division goes like this:
Mainstat-for-mainstat swapping: 0 none
Mainstat-for-skill swapping: 1 Gifted
Mainstat-for-derivedstat swapping: 2 Bruiser, Small Frame
Derivedstat-for-derivedstat swapping: 1 Fast Metabolism
Skill-for-skill swapping: 1 Good Natured
Combat effects: 4 One Hander, Kamikaze, Heavy Handed, Fast Shot
Misc: 7 Finesse, Bloody Mess, Jinxed, Chem Reliant, Chem Resistant, Sex Appeal, Skilled

That's almost half the effects that have no direct impact on your stats (with a new character, "Skilled" is hard to classify as it doesn't take effect until your first levelup), 4 that effect only combat and do not swap stats around, and a measly 5 that do any swapping at all, *NONE* swapping a SPECIAL for a LAICEPS, which is what the pnp does repeatedly and which has no point whatsoever.

[Rosh]

so you're 'lucky' when you move and the enemies are 'jinxed' when you run outta APs.. Is there a drawback?

Nope, none at all.

Some are kept from the CRPG but changed a little (Kamikaze, etc.). Some are changed for no obvious reason (Jinxed). Some are kept because FOT used them and canon isn't important to GC as you can tell by the intro or cover art (Vat Skin). Some are just stupid as hell (Sickly, exchanging 1 CON for 1 Will...in essence giving up a whole stat that gives extra health, poison and rad resistance, in lieu of a derived stat that would infer use against psionics).

The stat changing "traits" are not traits (as they're supposed to offer drawbacks as well), they're simply munchkin tools to bypass racial score limitations or to stack with the already large <s>half-orc</s> super-mutant strength scores. No munchkin is going to bother putting points into Wisdom, Intelligence, and Charisma if they're making a munchkin fighter. Instead, they're going to put as much STR as possible into the character, probably max out DEX and CON like a munchkin, and THEN pick the trait to get even more strength...which follows along with:

Ham Fisted (Super Mutants Only): Genetic engineering [sic] has endowed this mutant with huge hands. His unarmed attacks deal lethal damage (1d6 + STR), however he suffers a -1 penalty to all Dexterity-based skills the require the use of his hands.

So let's see...if super-mutants are anything like half-orcs, and if GluttonCreeper is as lazy as they appear to be they are, then you can expect to reach a 23 STR from the start (16 in Fallout's stats), and have a HtH attack of 24-29 (17-22 damage in Fallout stats). 7-12 if it was only taking the STR damamge modifier into account. But, given how they have written these to be highly munchkin in nature, it's probably 1-6 + STR + Str Dam Bonus, making it to something like 30-35 a HtH attack.

Ham Fisted certainly describes the writing of these traits. So instead of the clumsiness involved with using Small Guns, etc. that was originally used, -1 DEX to DEX skills. Which, to a munchkin fighter, isn't a damn thing. In FOT, it at least had a drawback to being so good melee. So your Big and Dumb/Ham Fisted <s>Half-Orc</s> Super-Mutant can't lockpick so well...but your Small Frame/Flexible DeathClaw character with 24 DEX can!

Now consider a DeathClaw, with increased AGI/DEX, with the lesser form of this, their form of "Heavy Handed".

The same with a ghoul with Tech Wizard and Book Smart. No real drawbacks.

[atoga]

Standard for what?

i think he means standard for a d20 product. such minimal stat-swapping feats are pretty standard in d20 expansions. usually they give a greater penalty, though, ie. +1 con for -2 cha, or some similar tradeoff.

and uhh... much as I agree with you, there's no spelling incorrect in 'engineering'.

[Rosh]

and uhh... much as I agree with you, there's no spelling incorrect in 'engineering'.

[sic] usually denotes an error in a passage, kept faithfully from their botching of the original form, but this time it was kept because they decided to only half reprint from the FOT traits.

EDIT: As someone at NMA noted, they're using the munchkin rules of d20 APs, which still makes little sense or reason why any idiot would pick either trait. In addition, they also pointed out that the 1:1 swapping traits would be quite explotating to a point buy stat generation.

[minigunwielder]

Someone should post news about this travesty on the Wizards D20 System Boards+D20 Modern Boards+The D20 Experimentation: Sci-Fi Board, and then link and post all of our fan-made systems in different threads(with updates) to kill these bastards once and for all
Now let us bankrupt the fuckwits; and make sure they never get a job outside the fast food industry again.

[Brother None]

i think he means standard for a d20 product. such minimal stat-swapping feats are pretty standard in d20 expansions. usually they give a greater penalty, though, ie. +1 con for -2 cha, or some similar tradeoff.

Oh, well, I'll give you that as I'm not very familiar with the d20 system. But obviously these munchkiny trade-offs are an insult to the SPECIAL concept of traits, even if they fit in with the normal d20 stupidity.

Then again, I was never expected much more

[atoga]

well, a good number of the traits in fallout are munchkin-oriented too - gifted and small frame are good examples of this. that's not the major issue.

my problem with the traits (aside from the really stupid ones like Lucky) are that they're boring & uninspired. and stat swapping is usually a part of character creation in d20 already, so most of the traits won't add anything to your character that you couldn't already.

i imagine most of the rules in fallout d20 will have that toned down feeling to them. so not only will we get a misrepresented setting, but also forgettable gameplay.

[Rosh]

well, a good number of the traits in fallout are munchkin-oriented too - gifted and small frame are good examples of this.

Actually not, each has a drawback or a general game effect, rather than to serve as ways to get around point builds, racial limitations, etc.

Gifted, for instance, is an invested effort - one hell of a comparable penalty at the beginning to skills (-9% to every skill, a level or more of skill points depending upon your build) for stats. This has the downside of being potentially very wasteful on ammo at the beginning and in turn make it quite difficult as even tagged you have a hard time hitting a barrel at 20 paces, which extends to other combat aspects. At the beginning, due to the stats deriving to form the skill bases, and how SPECIAL progresses though stats being interpereted into derived stats and skill points, skills matter more than stats except for weapon requirements. Later on, through time, stats do matter and accumulate (like more skill points from a higher INT), but it requires a more unskilled beginning.

Small Frame's downside is a delayed effect, offering you one point in agility in lieu of losing about 1/3 of your carry weight with a STR of 10, about 90 lbs. Not a good thing for most munchkinfesting Monty Haulers.

Gifted + Skilled seems to be a tempting offer, until you realize you don't get Perks as often. They all have drawbacks or a neutral effect like Bloody Mess.

As for the actual Traits themselves, yeah, unimaginative as hell and not really befitting the whole point of Traits. I'm now wondering how they botched up the Perks as well, since they will likely be as lame, one-trick, and "linear" as d20's Feats (such as the typical Power Attack to Cleave to Greater Cleave fighter, or the Ambidexterity/etc. Drizzt munchkin fighter).

[St. Toxic]

I petitioned for kicking Glutton out months ago.