Fallout Bileball #8

[Mr Carrot]

they make it quite clear in FO1 that some water is safe and non radioactive, theres about 50 "its safe it it doesnt glow statements at the start of the game".

As for radioactive steam....... arnt super mutants immune to the steam anyway?

[Rosh]

they make it quite clear in FO1 that some water is safe and non radioactive, theres about 50 "its safe it it doesnt glow statements at the start of the game".

True, but even so, no person is going to willingly drink that unless they are absolutely near dying of thirst. Also, I believe it was Tycho that brought up that no living things are in irradiated water, and it could look like normal water.

As for radioactive steam....... arnt super mutants immune to the steam anyway?

That they are immune to a bit of the radiation, but the Vault Dweller and Co. aren't. They'd get a very unhealthy dose whenever they are using that death on wheels.

[OnTheBounce]

Also, I believe it was Tycho that brought up that no living things are in irradiated water, and it could look like normal water.

Yes, it was Tycho that brings that up. He cautions against drinking water that is completely clean and free of anything living since it is either irradiated, or poisonous.

That they are immune to a bit of the radiation, but the Vault Dweller and Co. aren't. They'd get a very unhealthy dose whenever they are using that death on wheels.

You know, that's a minor glitch in the game mechanics. Namely that Ghouls and SMs simply have a higher Rad. Res. than standard humans. I think the designers should consider putting in a "Radiation Threshold" as part of the racial characteristics of certain races. This way SMs and Ghouls can hang around in mildly irradiated areas w/no ill effects, but if that Threshold is exceeded then they start sucking up rads, although this number would be reduced by the Rad. Res.

OTB

[Red]

It's beside my point, really, and not much to do with the topic.

Well last I looked you brought it up

But that's really irrelevent as to why the Vault Dweller isn't going to chug some irradiated water. Would you be stupid enough to drink poisoned water instead of looking for clean water?

Admitably I wouldn't unless my life depended on it. There will defenetivly be spots where there is radiation left - and one would think that those spots nearer to the explosions' centers would be more probable to have some - and the wasteland is probably not the prime place to find them...

You know, that's a minor glitch in the game mechanics. Namely that Ghouls and SMs simply have a higher Rad. Res. than standard humans. I think the designers should consider putting in a "Radiation Threshold" as part of the racial characteristics of certain races.

Maybe in FO:T, but not in Fallout. FEV protects them from radiation (Supermutants - see various ZAX logs) and depending on your view on mutants, either they were generated by the radiation (and thus live because of it) or were mutated by FEV (and thus have become unaffected by it).

True, but even so, no person is going to willingly drink that unless they are absolutely near dying of thirst. Also, I believe it was Tycho that brought up that no living things are in irradiated water, and it could look like normal water.

Why would mutants care (since they were the ones who made the steam engine vehicle anyway and are using it, not humans)? As for that water, chances are it's poisonous rather then irradiated since the radiation would eventually borrow in the water's sediments and let normal swmming things pretty much untouched (Given they surviced in the first place obviously). Anyway we have several examples of too-clean-lakes which were killed by various toxic dumps in it, and given Fallout's inclination of beleiving radiation is the cause of everything in the worlds illnesses makes it rather obivous that people would rather blame it on that then anything else. And I'm not saying there's no irradiated water, I'm just saying there's probably less then people seem to think there is.

[OnTheBounce]

Maybe in FO:T, but not in Fallout. FEV protects them from radiation (Supermutants - see various ZAX logs) and depending on your view on mutants, either they were generated by the radiation (and thus live because of it) or were mutated by FEV (and thus have become unaffected by it).

In the case of Ghouls I was going off of something that the Ghouls in Gecko said. They were talking about the background radiation in the the area. It was so low that a human wouldn't be affected by it for weeks, but the Ghouls said that it merely felt good to them somehow.

OTB

[Rosh]

Well last I looked you brought it up

No, I was talking about the effects and reasons why someone wouldn't drink the effects of radiated water.

Then, you went onto some weird-ass tangent about Fo2 that goes along the lines of "DUH! No shit!" and which really didn't talk about why someone wouldn't drink irradiated water.

Admitably I wouldn't unless my life depended on it. There will defenetivly be spots where there is radiation left - and one would think that those spots nearer to the explosions' centers would be more probable to have some - and the wasteland is probably not the prime place to find them...

Very good, that was a bit more relevent than some technical blurb about how to get a 6th toe in Fo2.

Why would mutants care (since they were the ones who made the steam engine vehicle anyway and are using it, not humans)?

Because in the question, it was mentioned that someone wanted to drive one, but since clean water is very scarce, and to radiated, then it would become reallt unwieldy for the player to... Y'know, I'm not going to keep on going if you're not going to bother much in keeping up.

As for that water, chances are it's poisonous rather then irradiated since the radiation would eventually borrow in the water's sediments and let normal swmming things pretty much untouched (Given they surviced in the first place obviously). Anyway we have several examples of too-clean-lakes which were killed by various toxic dumps in it, and given Fallout's inclination of beleiving radiation is the cause of everything in the worlds illnesses makes it rather obivous that people would rather blame it on that then anything else. And I'm not saying there's no irradiated water, I'm just saying there's probably less then people seem to think there is.

Fallout: RADEEASHUN = BIGG SCARREE!!

Or did you miss the theme, perhaps?

[Red]

Very good, that was a bit more relevent than some technical blurb about how to get a 6th toe in Fo2.

I still don't get how the extra tow relates to drinking water since the way you get it has nothing to do with radiated water. The way you line of though goes, it seems like this "Goo give toe; goo be radioative. If drink radioactive water water give toe?".

Because in the question, it was mentioned that someone wanted to drive one, but since clean water is very scarce, and to radiated, then it would become reallt unwieldy for the player to... Y'know, I'm not going to keep on going if you're not going to bother much in keeping up.

Yes, someone mentioned that, but within my conversation, nowhere did I make the relation to that. Just because someone else talked about driving the stupid thing doesn't mean I support that idea, which is something you readily assume seeing your stance towards me.

Fallout: RADEEASHUN = BIGG SCARREE!!

Or did you miss the theme, perhaps?

I never dienied that, but it still doesn't mean it caused everything. Just like the trend to blame everyuthing on FEV simply doesn't work (as it seemed to be going pertaining to the bible), blaming everything on radiation within the knowledge of the random people living in the world makes sense, but finding out what really causes the problems is a bit deeper in though then that.

[Rosh]

I still don't get how the extra tow relates to drinking water since the way you get it has nothing to do with radiated water. The way you line of though goes, it seems like this "Goo give toe; goo be radioative. If drink radioactive water water give toe?"

The toe, in context, should have been equivalent of "some effect of radiation". Again, so you can read it:

"Even with Rad-Away...you don't know much about the effects of radiation, even that depicted in the 50's sci-fi? Who knows what would happen? You could mutate into some seriously twisted freak or grow a 3rd arm!"

See, I changed it so your reading comprehension level can't hang up on "6th toe". I'll try to accomodate for your special needs from now on.

Yes, someone mentioned that, but within my conversation, nowhere did I make the relation to that.

Oh, sorry. I didn't know you were going to step into your own reality.

Just because someone else talked about driving the stupid thing doesn't mean I support that idea, which is something you readily assume seeing your stance towards me

Kind of funny, since that was the whole topic of discussion and you want to be hypocritical and try to tell me to stay in context when it seems you are the one who has the problem. This is all starting from your post in reply to Prov's point that the player couldn't drive a car using "dirty water", as the supply of unradiated water is fairly scarce (Water Merchants and The Water Chip spark a clue?), and you replied "Why do you need to use pure water? I mean sur it boils faster then "dirty water", but it'd be just stupid...
Thinking it over, boiling water is a very good way to clean the water actually. " Well, for the player to think about it, they couldn't use dirty water. You get the picture now?

There was no relevence to Super-Mutants or anything in Prov's post. Drop that. It's irrelevent. Face it, you're trying (rather futilely, might I add) to un-dig yourself from yet another discussion about a topic you know not much about but are making points about that turn out to be rather absurd, and then try to spin by inserting things that aren't relevent.

[Red]

Yes, someone mentioned that, but within my conversation, nowhere did I make the relation to that.

Oh, sorry. I didn't know you were going to step into your own reality.

Ok, so just because I don't support the whole idea of having a steam engine in the game yet am defending some steam engine points makes me a wacko?

Kind of funny, since that was the whole topic of discussion and you want to be hypocritical and try to tell me to stay in context when it seems you are the one who has the problem. This is all starting from your post in reply to Prov's point that the player couldn't drive a car using "dirty water", as the supply of unradiated water is fairly scarce (Water Merchants and The Water Chip spark a clue?), and you replied "Why do you need to use pure water? I mean sur it boils faster then "dirty water", but it'd be just stupid...
Thinking it over, boiling water is a very good way to clean the water actually. " Well, for the player to think about it, they couldn't use dirty water. You get the picture now?

Well, I never lost it personally. I'm defending a point, that's all. Someone mentions water is scarce (for boiling) and I'm bringing up points as how it's not that scarces. Why is it so hard for you to conceive that you can defend points even though you don't beleive in them?

There was no relevence to Super-Mutants or anything in Prov's post. Drop that. It's irrelevent.

Yeah it is. Said steam engine was apparantly made and used by super-mutants. Not humans... Of course S_P's post didn't mention that.

[Quinn]

I'd always assumed "Meantime" was a Wasteland sequel, and not just another game using the Wasteland engine. That's a headline-worthy bit of news for any Wasteland fan.

[Rosh]

Yes, someone mentioned that, but within my conversation, nowhere did I make the relation to that.

Oh, sorry. I didn't know you were going to step into your own reality.

Ok, so just because I don't support the whole idea of having a steam engine in the game yet am defending some steam engine points makes me a wacko?

I suppose you must be one, since you've gone into one screwy-ass tangent after another from your reply to Prov and it's just gone to mental ambiguity ever since.

Kind of funny, since that was the whole topic of discussion and you want to be hypocritical and try to tell me to stay in context when it seems you are the one who has the problem. This is all starting from your post in reply to Prov's point that the player couldn't drive a car using "dirty water", as the supply of unradiated water is fairly scarce (Water Merchants and The Water Chip spark a clue?), and you replied "Why do you need to use pure water? I mean sur it boils faster then "dirty water", but it'd be just stupid...
Thinking it over, boiling water is a very good way to clean the water actually. " Well, for the player to think about it, they couldn't use dirty water. You get the picture now?

Well, I never lost it personally. I'm defending a point, that's all. Someone mentions water is scarce (for boiling) and I'm bringing up points as how it's not that scarces. Why is it so hard for you to conceive that you can defend points even though you don't beleive in them?

In relevence to the initial topic from which this stems, your points have been rather irrelevent. Okay, radiation doesn't affect super-mutants.

Relevence to originating topic = 0%.

There was no relevence to Super-Mutants or anything in Prov's post. Drop that. It's irrelevent.

Yeah it is. Said steam engine was apparantly made and used by super-mutants. Not humans... Of course S_P's post didn't mention that.

No, but it was mentioning that someone wanted to run said steam engine in those games (again, you need to utilize the materials at hand a great deal better). They couldn't really do that as a super-mutant, since that's not even an option until FOT. Or did you forget that you couldn't play a super-mutant as a player-character in Fallout 1 and 2.

Your homework assignment would be to read the part of the Bileball pertaining to this topic, re-read Prov's post, figure out that your post about having the Vault Dwller chugging around in a radioactive steam cloud is rather silly (including the false bullshit of "it cleans the water")),and then step out from left field.

[Red]

In relevence to the initial topic from which this stems, your points have been rather irrelevent. Okay, radiation doesn't affect super-mutants.

Relevence to originating topic = 0%.

Then what about the mention of how "Stupid my idea was about boiling irrediated water" was since "it would make radiated vapour which people wouldn't really like to breathe". Well guess what. Mutants don't give. Hope this clears things up a bit.

Your homework assignment would be to read the part of the Bileball pertaining to this topic, re-read Prov's post, figure out that your post about having the Vault Dwller chugging around in a radioactive steam cloud is rather silly (including the false bullshit of "it cleans the water")),and then step out from left field.

I'm not here to debate wether or not the steam engine should be available for the player's whim so he can have fun with it. I'm debating - regardless of the fact of wether it fits in the setting - wether it would be feasable for someone to build a steam engine run truck and use it.
You took it upon yourself to take all that back into Saint-Prov's statement that the idea is just plain silly. It is. I'm not saying it isn't.

[Saint_Proverbius]

I'm not here to debate wether or not the steam engine should be available for the player's whim so he can have fun with it. I'm debating - regardless of the fact of wether it fits in the setting - wether it would be feasable for someone to build a steam engine run truck and use it.
You took it upon yourself to take all that back into Saint-Prov's statement that the idea is just plain silly. It is. I'm not saying it isn't.

No, actually, I don't think you're debating at all. You're proving you're a supercilious little twit that can't admit you screwed the pooch.

Going from the idea that super-mutants could use a steam truck to the idea of the NCR having 1 car for every 200 people is bunk considering the fact Fallout's whole plot revolves around the fact that most water in the game is irradiated. Drinking irradiated water is bad, very bad.. BREATHING irradiated vapor is much, much worse.

[Rosh]

No, actually, I don't think you're debating at all. You're proving you're a supercilious little twit that can't admit you screwed the pooch.

From his first reply, and then the bullshit just kept accumulating as he kept trying to cover up the bullshit with even more bullshit.

Red: Bullshit doesn't cover up bullshit too well. You'll often find, as with this thread, it doesn't cover up or hide anything. It just makes a bigger pile of bullshit.

[Red]

Going from the idea that super-mutants could use a steam truck to the idea of the NCR having 1 car for every 200 people is bunk considering the fact Fallout's whole plot revolves around the fact that most water in the game is irradiated. Drinking irradiated water is bad, very bad.. BREATHING irradiated vapor is much, much worse.

I really don't get how the whole car theory relates to the radioative water theory.

Let's take my statement back

I'd also like him to just forget about the whole ordeal but you're probably right in that it helps support his annoying car theories.

Now think about it. If there are so many people with cars running, wouldn't you be inclined to think that a steam truck would be largely overlooked since well, there'd be plenty of cars available to do the same?

Now take that, and put it in perspective

Last update, you said there were 1/200 cars/people ration in the NCR. If there were so many working cars in NCR, where were they?
[...]
And before you get the image of tanks and jeeps flying around everywhere with heavy machine guns mounted on the back, most of that junk is old tractors and crap like taxis, old buses, snowplows, and even old construction equipment. It's possible that mysterious old steam-truck mentioned in the bowels of the F1 data archive is still lumbering around somewhere.

Oohh! And now you see the steam truck is added in the list to show that people were VERY desperate to get around by whathever means avaiable other then walking...

THAT is the whole relation of me bringing up the car statement.

Now since you seem to ingnore my Super Mutant made the steam truck theory

How did master move, he's just a big peace of crap!
I have no idea how the Master was moved. It was probably either by a large (steam) truck or caravan, but I don't have any specific information on how he was moved.[...]

Then

* For some reason I liked your mention of the steam trucks from F1. They've puzzled me a bit since that was the only mention of vehicle technology anywhere in F1 as far as I know, and it was odd that a bigger deal wasn't made of the fact that the super mutant army actually had them. You'd only ever hear about them if you found that ghoul refugee behind the bookcase.
It may have been embarrassing for them to mention it. It may have been a very ugly-looking vehicle.
They probably didn't make a big deal of it for art reasons and gameplay reasons. ("Where's the steam truck?! I want to drive it!")

Notice how this one clearly identifies them as having a steam truck and yet CA doesn't dissociate the Super mutants from it in his answer.

Now I'm somewhat opposed to the fact a steam truck could be build since you'd need a balance between the strength of the car to pull it's fuel and whatever load you want it to carry as well as itself, and then hope a wheel never gets cought into anything - specially considering the weight.

Now for a reminder of how supoer mutants are immune to radiation:

Why isn't FEV affected by radiation?
The FEV is a megavirus, with a protein sheath reinforced by ionized hydrogen. It is therefore capable of absorbing neutrons without becoming radioactive.
If the FEV re-infects the host with its assimilated viral
patterns, how does it make a 'better specimen'?
[...]
When inoculated into an individual with significant genetic damage, such as through radiation, it will cause the body's systems to suffer massive overhauling, leading to organ failure and death.

And then more importantly

Maybe it's all that extra radiation.
Radiation has no effect on us. The FEV virus makes us immune. Your argument is weak, and so are you.

Now to get back to wood being used as fuel I provide this link. There are plenty of locomotive which were run on wood. Would it be feasable to run a truck on it? I have no idea.

As for MAKING a truck, here's an article about car history I found, depicting steam run cars - and I mean automobiles here not locomotives:link.

There's nothing stopping people from doing the same mistake again - specially in a future where logs of such obscure experiments are lost and the fact of it being impracticle thus also forgotten.

[Rosh]

Red, are you purposely acting this retarded? It's either that, or suddenly you've forgotten how to use a message board. Now, I'm going to hold your hand to understand this; after this I'm afraid there's no hope for you or you're trolling.

* For some reason I liked your mention of the steam trucks from F1. They've puzzled me a bit since that was the only mention of vehicle technology anywhere in F1 as far as I know, and it was odd that a bigger deal wasn't made of the fact that the super mutant army actually had them. You'd only ever hear about them if you found that ghoul refugee behind the bookcase.
It may have been embarrassing for them to mention it. It may have been a very ugly-looking vehicle.
They probably didn't make a big deal of it for art reasons and gameplay reasons. ("Where's the steam truck?! I want to drive it!")

Now, if you had even a single clue riccocheting around in your skull at this point, you would understand that Prov might be referring to the point above in bold (and other occurances of that same point) by his post on the message board. You know, just in case your memory is short, the one you replied to.

Steam truck question.. Hell, the very idea of steam trucks in Fallout is ludicrious. Where do they get the fuel for them? Not every town is going to have coal mines, so what happens if you run out of coal in an area where there aren't coal mines? You'd be screwed.

Furthermore, pure water is pretty sacred in Fallout. If you're running a steam truck around with irradiated water.. YOU'RE DEAD.

This was mainly in reply to those who wanted to use the vehicle in the past or have asked why the player/character couldn't use it or someone else in the world, as others were using brahmin-driven carts. To which, here you went onto a weird-ass tangent about irradiated water about to be cleaned by boiling, and how there is no danger in using irradiated water and how it's actually a good thing. "You" in this context, would be both the character and player, because the original point was about someone asking about using the steam trucks.

---
Drop the Super Mutants. We know about them and radiation. We know they were the users of the steam trucks.

That was not the topic to begin with.

Get the clue now, Sparky?


In addition:

Now to get back to wood being used as fuel I provide this link. There are plenty of locomotive which were run on wood. Would it be feasable to run a truck on it? I have no idea.

Well, what was pretty well decimated, as there was hardly any of them around? Where do you also get wood from? Trees, perhaps? (Most greenery would be dead, too...ever notice that?) So how can you find a good stand of woods to cut wood from, at all, particularly in a state that is substantially a desert to begin with and would have had the shit nuked out of it?

It's a wasteland, remember.

[Jeff]

Where do you also get wood from? Trees, perhaps? (Most greenery would be dead, too...ever notice that?)

I'm not sure about FO1 (haven't played in eons), but in FO2 there were lots of trees. Arroyo, for instance, was surrounded by woods, and many other towns and encounters had trees also.

[VasikkA]

I'm not sure about FO1 (haven't played in eons), but in FO2 there were lots of trees. Arroyo, for instance, was surrounded by woods, and many other towns and encounters had trees also.

Well, the trees around Arroyo/encounters were dead, probably burnt or killed by radiation. The only places with green trees and grass were Vault City and NCR.

[Red]

Now, if you had even a single clue riccocheting around in your skull at this point, you would understand that Prov might be referring to the point above in bold (and other occurances of that same point) by his post on the message board. You know, just in case your memory is short, the one you replied to.

I very well know he was talking about those points and I never disagreed with them. I wished to discuss other points, is something wrong with that?

"You" in this context, would be both the character and player, because the original point was about someone asking about using the steam trucks.

I'm not discussing wether "you" the player "should be able to use it". I'm discussing wether or not it's feasable for it to exist. Again, I've mentioned that many times.

Well, what was pretty well decimated, as there was hardly any of them around? Where do you also get wood from? Trees, perhaps? (Most greenery would be dead, too...ever notice that?) So how can you find a good stand of woods to cut wood from, at all, particularly in a state that is substantially a desert to begin with and would have had the shit nuked out of it?

For the locomotive, well, I beleive when building a truck one would like to use something lighter then a locomotive, making finding one largely irrelevant - but even considering you'd still like to find one, I don't think Museum were prime targets for nukes. As for wood, last time I played fallout, there were plenty of trees in random encounters and various other places. So much so in fact I felt it a bit out of setting, but I'm not the one who placed them there and them being so profuse might just be a design oversight as sand might have gotten boring... As for dead trees, well usually you burn it dead last I checked. The only problem with older trees is they might rot, but seeing as they still have plenty of branches and aren't torn down they seem rather swell for burning.

There was an extra poitn about coal someone brought up, but I don't personally think coal can come to help either since considering petrol is right out of the picture one would think they've also pretty much used up all coal resources too.

[Doyle]

Just drop it, red. You most certainly *did* reply directly to SP, and now you're just trying to save face. Leave it be, it's not worth it.