Duck and Cover

[TBC]-PaladinHeart wrote:BTW a clip of a basic vault design would be very useful. Anyone got something like that? I Would like to put a few in my campaign but im not very good at doing stuff from memory. I might just need the third level (storage, overseer, computer labs, etc..) since OTB's vault city has the first and 2nd levels (med bay and living quarters).

Hmm OTB's 3rd level isn't that far off (the most glaring difference is a door between the storage areas), considering there have been some diferences in the layout between the vaults seen so far there's no reason not to use it.

It's a pity that we can't import maps into one another, as there's a limit to how big a clip you can make. If I could import OTB's vault into some of the maps I have planned it would save a lot of time. Oh well I guess I'll just have to clip each level into sections.

Oh, I didn't see the third level. Where is it? The map only went down to the 2nd level and the stairs ended.. maybe I need to look elsewhere on the map for it.

Well I couldn't get to the third level from the editor but I could via gameplay. Am I missing some trick where you can go lower?

I figured it out. Just have to use ctrl and copy it all to a clip, then paste it elsewhere. I don't mind the levels being slightly off. The basic design is all I needed and will save me LOTS of work.

Edit: Although a way to make the level taller, or deeper, than the size used might come in handy. Is there a way to do this? I know you could paste a whole new level like that but it wouldn't be very helpful since you can't paste the entities as well.

Of course there is the problem of the more levels, the more lag.

Hold down space and drag the level bar (on the right) up or down with the left mouse button. You can go from -128 to 128 IIRC.

[TBC]-PaladinHeart wrote:BTW a clip of a basic vault design would be very useful. Anyone got something like that? I Would like to put a few in my campaign but im not very good at doing stuff from memory.

I had a clip of a vault at one time, but foolishly deleted it at one time. The vault in VC was pasted as a clip from another map that is still in IOOI, although I modified it a bit once I put it on the VC map.

I didn't make that map from memory, either. I sat down w/FO2 playing and paced everything out w/a character who did nothing but complete the Temple of Trials and then bee-line it for Vault City. Graph paper, a pencil and will were all it took. ;)

requiem_for_a_starfury wrote:Hmm OTB's 3rd level isn't that far off (the most glaring difference is a door between the storage areas), considering there have been some diferences in the layout between the vaults seen so far there's no reason not to use it.

You can't really make a true replica of a Vault map, even if you wanted to. There are certain things that cannot be replicated in FoT that the RPGs did. One of them is elevators, although you could do this w/multiple maps and campaign variables, one map cannot feature an elevator so you will have to substitute stairs. Since you can't make an exact replica you may as well take a bit of license. At any rate, like you said, there have been differences between the various vaults. (One could always rationalize the lack of elevators as it having been part of that vault's experiment...)

Requiem wrote:It's a pity that we can't import maps into one another, as there's a limit to how big a clip you can make.

I can't remember if I clipped the entire vault at once, or if I went level-by-level. Either way, when you do paste the clip it's a real pain in the ass to move all of those damned tiles. Make sure you have something ready to keep you occupied while your CPU grunts and sweats, else you very well may die of boredom.

OTB

OnTheBounce wrote:You can't really make a true replica of a Vault map, even if you wanted to. There are certain things that cannot be replicated in FoT that the RPGs did. One of them is elevators, although you could do this w/multiple maps and campaign variables, one map cannot feature an elevator so you will have to substitute stairs. Since you can't make an exact replica you may as well take a bit of license. At any rate, like you said, there have been differences between the various vaults. (One could always rationalize the lack of elevators as it having been part of that vault's experiment...)

Sorry I miss-read TBC-PH's first post and was trying to defend your 3rd level, I didn't realise that he couldn't see it. : ) It's a pity that they didn't create a lift tileset, to me the vault lifts are as much an icon of Fallout as PA or Pipboy. Hmm Personally I would use ladders instead of stairs justifying it as the lifts were out of order. : )

OnTheBounce wrote:I can't remember if I clipped the entire vault at once, or if I went level-by-level. Either way, when you do paste the clip it's a real pain in the ass to move all of those damned tiles. Make sure you have something ready to keep you occupied while your CPU grunts and sweats, else you very well may die of boredom.

OTB

Perhaps it depends on your computer but I've been unable to make very large clips, large areas of floor (if mostly of one tile) are okay but to clip your vault I'd have to cut each level into 4.

wait... couldn't you telelport the players to another "level"? Aolthough this could create complications - the main one being an elevaator with more then two levels...

You can not move a player's entity. You could possibly give the player's units to the computer and then move them but its a complicated mess not really worth doing. Plus if I recall once a player has owned an entity you can not move it anywhere or command it to do anything.. but not certain of this.

There are other possibilities but I would rather not post silliness unless I know it works :)

You can use the 'move unit' action to teleport the player, but it's not very pretty. You'd need to also use the center view action as well cause the camera doesn't follow the player to the new location, and on my computer the player sprite leaves a frozen after image behind.

Um, uh, OK, well, better forget about it then...

One thing that came to my mind was to use an idea that somebody had awhile ago. I forget who came up with the idea of using a vehicle on an explodable wall. When the wall was smashed then the vehicle would fall down. Why couldn't you have a switchable box?

So you could have an entity box that you stand on and when you pulled the switch it was exchanged with a box of lesser height and your PC would drop down a level. Not sure if it would work in reverse.

Jimmyjay86 wrote:One thing that came to my mind was to use an idea that somebody had awhile ago. I forget who came up with the idea of using a vehicle on an explodable wall. When the wall was smashed then the vehicle would fall down. Why couldn't you have a switchable box?

So you could have an entity box that you stand on and when you pulled the switch it was exchanged with a box of lesser height and your PC would drop down a level. Not sure if it would work in reverse.

The gist of that thread was that the vehicles sprites have falling animations not the character sprites, so in theory you could do this for a vehicle lift, but what image would you use for the box entity??

requiem_for_a_starfury wrote:Sorry I miss-read TBC-PH's first post and was trying to defend your 3rd level, I didn't realise that he couldn't see it. : )

No need to be sorry there, old boy! I appreciate it, I was just clarrifying some things that the longest standing Map Rats will remember from what seems like (a)eons ago.

Requiem wrote:Hmm Personally I would use ladders instead of stairs justifying it as the lifts were out of order. : )

In some places I have done just that. In other places I have substituted stairs. It all depends on what mood I'm in, and I am a capricious rapscallion. ;)

Actually, it has more to do w/what I'm trying to do w/a map. If the map is to be defended by someone I tend to put stairs in it rather than ladders. The latter are too easy to defend, since one can simply shoot temporarily helpless opponents right back down from whence they came. There was supposed to be a very large assault that took place on that map, w/Super Mutant mercenaries running all around, so I opted for stairs instead of ladders.

Requiem wrote:Perhaps it depends on your computer but I've been unable to make very large clips, large areas of floor (if mostly of one tile) are okay but to clip your vault I'd have to cut each level into 4.

Interesting. I've had no problem making large clips that I can recall. In fact, I can't recall having had any problems w/clips, except remembering where I put them. :lol:

OTB

Okay, another map added to the Graveyard. The file is called "pseudoSAD" and -- you guessed it -- it's a FoT version of Sierra Army Depot.

This is another map that a lot of work went into, so I hope someone can put it to good use. While the basic concept that this mission was going to be used for in IOOI is still there, it was becoming increasingly apparent that I couldn't do what I wanted to do w/this map.

Cheers,

OTB

Another fine map OTB, if this is the quality of the maps you're rejecting I can't wait to see what makes it into the IOOI. Damn a lazy person could make a mini-campaign just from your outcasts. : )

requiem_for_a_starfury wrote:Another fine map OTB...

Why thank you, kind sir!

requiem_for_a_starfury wrote:...if this is the quality of the maps you're rejecting I can't wait to see what makes it into the IOOI.

Provided we don't all die of old age first. :lol:

Seriously, though, one of my main goals w/this project is to give players something that is every bit as good as the core campaign, and a whole lot better in a lot of ways. In addition to allowing the greatest numbers of consequences via scripting that includes making the maps as good as I reasonably can.

The way I see it, I will never be a game designer -- besides, I wouldn't work in that industry for love or money -- but this is my one shot in life to dabble in the field and accomplish something in it.

requiem_for_a_starfury wrote:Damn a lazy person could make a mini-campaign just from your outcasts. : )

If someone did that I'd be delighted. :)

Too bad I can't find that map of The Den. It would have made for a good mini-campaign if the story went from fighting Slavers in The Den, then following their trail to New Reno and while in New Reno discovering Sierra Army Depot. Although if someone wanted to make a mini-campaign like that the majority of the mapping is already done...

OTB

Guess I'll go D/L that new map now. If the Sierra Army Depot is what im thinking it is.. that will save me some time. I want to put a lot of vaultish stuff in my RPG (in fact at least 10 underground places), so this will be of some help.

<sigh> I just wish making maps were as easy as Starcraft. I like just plopping everything down and making it work with as little effort as possible..

I like using already made maps, but I will inevitably be moving stuff around.

OnTheBounce wrote:Provided we don't all die of old age first. :lol:

That's a danger for some of us more than for others. Do they do Grecian 2000 for beards?? : )

requiem_for_a_starfury wrote:Hold down space and drag the level bar (on the right) up or down with the left mouse button. You can go from -128 to 128 IIRC.

I tried space with everything that is associated with making the level bar go up or down. I still can't get it to work.