Fistful of Dollars

OnTheBounce · Post by **OnTheBounce** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 3:17 pm

Kashluk wrote:But thanks for the offer & the info.

No problem.

Kashluk wrote:And another gun related question... Is that revolver action rifle's (picture posted above) ammunition somehow different from ordinary cartridges? I mean, .56 sounds quite large for a Wild West - era "sniper's rifle".

It's not really that large at all, for the time period, but I'll explain further below.

The ammo is indeed different from what you're thinking. It's not metallic case catridiges, but rather what's variously referred to as a "percussion revolver" or "cap and ball revolver". That means that the cylinder held the powder; there was a priming cap placed at the end of the cylinder (to be struck by the hammer) and ignite the powder, and this then sent the ball/bullet down the barrel.

The problem w/this system was that while you had ready access to five or six shots, you had to sit down and replace the caps, then use a bottle to measure out the powder, then finally place a wad over the powder and put a slightly greased bullet in. This wasn't something that could be done in the heat of a fight w/o seriously risking getting yourself killed or having your weapon explode because you'd fucked up, so people usually carried a couple of extra cylinders on them. In that case it was actually easier to reload than the later metallic cartridge pistols, but one you're out of pre-loaded cylinders you're in trouble.

The version you have a pic of is only five shot, whereas the other versions (.40, .44 and .50 cal.) were six-shot models.

Incidentally, the Dragoon you're thinking of using falls into the same category, as do nearly all Civil War-era revolvers. (Metallic cartridges came into use late during that war.)

There were actually some very large caliber cartridges available in this time. The muzzle loaders were "king of the hill" in this department, w/some coming in at .75 caliber. But .56 caliber was definitely not uncommon for cap and ball types or even metallic cartridges, with quite a few companies offering cartridges in that caliber. (Although w/varying case capacities.)

Cheers,

OTB

Kashluk · Post by **Kashluk** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 3:24 pm

Ok... I guess I could balance this on the game in this fun way:

The five-shot revolver rifle would have a pretty long range + hefty damage. But the thing is that reloading it would take 5, 6 or maybe more action points, which means you'd have to sacrifice one turn for ducking and reloading if you were in heat of a battle. This could also be used as a tactical advantage. If a person has fired five times in a row, it's 100% sure he won't be a threat during the next round.

How does that sound?

I'm thinking of using a similar, but lighter, strategy on the revolvers & shotguns. Reloading a sawed off shotgun is a bit easier and aiming with it is faster than a full sized variant, so the speed factor could overcome the negative sides of a short shotgun. And then, choosing between .22 revolver and .22 derringer becomes harder as well, because you can fire both barrels of the deringer at once and reload it quicker than the revolver.

OnTheBounce · Post by **OnTheBounce** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 3:33 pm

Kashluk wrote:But the thing is that reloading it would take 5, 6 or maybe more action points, which means you'd have to sacrifice one turn for ducking and reloading if you were in heat of a battle. This could also be used as a tactical advantage. If a person has fired five times in a row, it's 100% sure he won't be a threat during the next round.

How does that sound?

It sounds great, except for one small problem: you can't tamper with the reload costs for FoT weapons. Reloading takes 2 AP, end of story. (A tragedy, to be sure, since this means no .44 Mag. Rev. w/Speed Loader ala FO2...

)

So my suggestion would be to simply go w/the tried-and-true Western "classics" and try to keep it as simple as possible.

Cheers,

OTB

Kashluk · Post by **Kashluk** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 3:50 pm

Wha?? God damn it, this means I have to scrap my plans on the weapons sector and start all over... You still can tamper with the shooting times, can't you? I guess I could make those bigger for the .56 rifle and smaller for the sawed-off shotgun.

OnTheBounce · Post by **OnTheBounce** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 3:56 pm

Kashluk wrote:Wha?? God damn it, this means I have to scrap my plans on the weapons sector and start all over...

Yep. Welcome to the club.

Kashluk wrote:You still can tamper with the shooting times, can't you? I guess I could make those bigger for the .56 rifle and smaller for the sawed-off shotgun.

Yes, you can set the AP costs for firing. There's a list that Requiem compiled a while back that listed all of those.

There's only one problem that you'll run into w/this: rather than simply setting the skill that a weapon requires, and then entering a value for the AP cost to use it, you'll have to select from a roll-down menu with entries like "Ranged Single". So I recommend getting that list from Requiem, so you will know what the AP cost for each entry is.

This was a really poor way to implement this, IMO. Since the skill that the weapon requires doesn't determine how perks, traits, etc., affect your using it, but rather the AP cost.

OTB

requiem_for_a_starfury · Thu Dec 11, 2003 3:57 pm

OnTheBounce wrote:Further more, I'd say that there's nothing wrong w/spears. Many if not all tribes in the West used lances/spears. Rather than a throwing axe you might want to have a "tomohawk", though.

Tomohawk I knew they had a special name, just couldn't think what it was. No there's nothing wrong with spears, but Kashluk was saying that his tribal character is going to be his stealth character so a spear would be a bit of a hinderance in that department (hmm I wonder if you can give weapons stealth modifiers?).

Kashluk give your pistols two modes, the first a low ap cost mode, with a zero or a negative accuracy modifier and no targeting ability, call the mode something like 'quick draw'. The second a higher accuracy and enable the targeting, but make it more expensive to use ap wise and perhaps call it 'aimed single'.

Kashluk · Post by **Kashluk** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 4:04 pm

Wouldn't the normal shot & targeted shot do the trick? I mean, "aimed single" would be one of those legendary shots that fires guns off of villain's hands and stuff like that, right? Well, with targeted fire you actually could hit him in the arm.

I'll just make those revolvers have low AP costs, so targeted shots will be as expensive as normal shots in normal FOT.

requiem_for_a_starfury · Thu Dec 11, 2003 4:18 pm

I was thinking of a extra mode like burst fire (which doesn't have the option to do a targeted shot) though instead of firing several bullets it still only fires a single shot but is very quick. Ideal for repeatedly firing, you know how they fan the hammer back real quickly with the flat of their hand in the movies, but isn't all that accurate.

The list of action point costs that OTB mentioned is here.

Kashluk · Post by **Kashluk** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 4:22 pm

Hm... Yeah, that sounds good. I guess I'll do that... "Fan the Ham" sounds like a fine name for that firing mode!

OnTheBounce · Post by **OnTheBounce** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 4:31 pm

I like that idea. Not bad! Not half bad!

requiem_for_a_starfury wrote:...[Y]ou know how they fan the hammer back real quickly with the flat of their hand in the movies, but isn't all that accurate.

Don't try that at home with an of-the-shelf revolver, folks. You'll skin your hand up and waste a lot of ammo. Guns used in films have lightened springs and are gone over by a gun smith to smooth out the action.

Edit: BTW, Kash, you might want to take a look at "deliverance.mis", which was submitted by josephgiven to the Graveyard of Broken Dreams. He was planning something very much like what you are. In fact, Senor Deluxe made some of the tiles Req mentioned for him to use on that map.

OTB

Kashluk · Post by **Kashluk** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 4:42 pm

Oh and it seems that I'm not able to find Photoshop tryout anywhere. All the downloading places (Adobe and Tucows included) are down / don't allow me to download it, so I must ask this from you, OTB... could you make a sprite out of the Deringer and Revolver-Action rifle? I doubt I'll be getting the software anytime soon, not to mention I'd have to learn to use it first.

I'll ask JJ if he still has time to do the Henry lever-action for me.

requiem_for_a_starfury · Thu Dec 11, 2003 4:48 pm

OnTheBounce wrote:Edit: BTW, Kash, you might want to take a look at "deliverance.mis", which was submitted by josephgiven to the Graveyard of Broken Dreams.

Can you check that file please OTB, getright says it can't find it and if I try save target as I get error 404etc etc.

Cheers

OnTheBounce · Post by **OnTheBounce** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 4:49 pm

Kashluk wrote:...OTB... could you make a sprite out of the Deringer and Revolver-Action rifle?

Sure. I'll get the revolver rifle pic from the previous page. (We'll see how it turns out.) Post a link to a derringer or email me one and I'll get on that, too.

Kashluk wrote:I doubt I'll be getting the software anytime soon, not to mention I'd have to learn to use it first.

Then there's the issue of whether or not the version you get supports RAW format and all that. The best bet is to get either a full or educational version of Photoshop 5 or 5.5. The newer versions are inferior in this respect since the RAW format never took hold as the cross-platform format that it was intended as.

OTB

Kashluk · Post by **Kashluk** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 4:52 pm

I found this great German webpage full of Wild West guns... So if you're having trouble finding good pictures of guns in the future, check this one out: http://www.roger-transier.com/index.html

Oh and here's the deringer:

OnTheBounce · Post by **OnTheBounce** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 5:23 pm

requiem_for_a_starfury wrote:Can you check that file please OTB, getright says it can't find it and if I try save target as I get error 404etc etc.

Ask and ye shall receive!!!

(How was that for pompous?

)

It's been fixed. It was a minor error, really. Forgot to capitalize the "D" in the file name. :oops:

Cheers!

Kash, I've got the derringer pic. I'll get on it later when I do Req's sprites.

Thanks for the link. BTW, the mythical Wild West is big in Germany. If you ever want to get rich, just come to the Southwestern US, buy up a bunch of cheap-ass tourist trinkets, then hop on over to Germany and you can get top dollar for them. My mum's countrymen are crazy that way...

OTB

requiem_for_a_starfury · Thu Dec 11, 2003 6:05 pm

OnTheBounce wrote:Ask and ye shall receive!!!

(How was that for pompous? )

It's been fixed. It was a minor error, really. Forgot to capitalize the "D" in the file name. :oops:

Hmm, most odd the download doesn't work in Opera,

but when I go and dust off IE it then works, bagh!

Kashluk · Post by **Kashluk** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 7:22 pm

Added "Navy Steel .36" with a 6 round cylinder and "Sharps Rifle 45/100" 1-shot marksman weapon to the weapons list... Entity creation process is well on the way.

Kashluk · Post by **Kashluk** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 7:08 am

OK, time for a crucial update...

... after deciding to become a part of the modern day's Windows-world, I installed Win2K Pro on my computer and *voila* managed to accidently format an 80 GB hard drive. This hard drive included Fallout: Tactics and all the editor files among other things, so I'm up to start from the scratch again... But we'll see, maybe I'll have the guts to continue, maybe I won't.

A big apologize to those, who already contributed to this little project of mine.

Jimmyjay86 · Post by **Jimmyjay86** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:31 pm

heh....

Accidentally? Kash, you really should have tried that on a new hard drive instead of the existing drive. Oh well, live and learn.

Stevie D · Post by **Stevie D** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 7:34 pm

OnTheBounce wrote:Edit: BTW, Kash, you might want to take a look at "deliverance.mis", which was submitted by josephgiven to the Graveyard of Broken Dreams. He was planning something very much like what you are. In fact, Senor Deluxe made some of the tiles Req mentioned for him to use on that map.

OTB

Hey hey! josefgiven is me by another name.

Kash - you might like what I did with the 'Deliverance' map and you might not. It was meant to be in the style of a town that had sprung up in the post-nuke ruins of another and had aquired a western-style atmosphere like Redding in FO2. That'll explain things like the pre-war Kwik-E-Mart etc.

I would be very glad if it went to even partial use, though. Thanks for uploading it, OTB.