Ahh, the draft

Mandalorian FaLLouT GoD · Wed May 26, 2004 3:38 am

jetbaby wrote:At least with a gun you can shoot back.

Running to Canada won't work. New legislation requires checks at the borders.

id like to see them stop people who cross by water.

jetbaby · Post by **jetbaby** » Wed May 26, 2004 3:58 am

Ha, sounds like a plan, Mandalore.

as for Starship Troopers, I think it is one of the most engenious methods of governing ever.

SuperH · Post by **SuperH** » Wed May 26, 2004 4:02 am

Mandalorian FaLLouT GoD wrote:id like to see them stop people who cross by water.

Hot damn man, what a good idea.

Niagara river's got plenty of places for me to get across. Even some that are swimmable. Just gotta make sure I do it downriver from the falls, incase I fuck up eh.

CloudNineGT · Post by **CloudNineGT** » Wed May 26, 2004 4:09 am

Or you could cross the thousands of miles of unprotected boarder.

jetbaby · Post by **jetbaby** » Wed May 26, 2004 5:02 am

Where is the style, originality, and REBALIALYOUS (rebellious) American nature in that?

SuperH · Post by **SuperH** » Wed May 26, 2004 5:24 am

Yah, it'd be so much more hardcore, unique and individual if I struggled through freezing rapids than to just walk straight across.

Anyway, if I wanted to hit unprotected borders I'd have to drive all the way around the great lakes, I live like 10 miles from Niagara Falls. No way I'm driving days just to walk 10 feet.

Or hell, if I'm leaving and not coming back, I can just go to the damned pedestrian bridge, say "Hey man, my car is parked back there and I'm going to Canada for the day so I can look at the falls and get drunk." And he'll be like "ok, have a nice day" and I'll be like, "so long suckas!"

That means I leave my car behind, but they always give you less border hassle that way.

S4ur0n27 · Post by **S4ur0n27** » Wed May 26, 2004 1:05 pm

And it's not like the movies, you won't find any car with unlocked doors and the keys waiting for you inside.

jetbaby · Post by **jetbaby** » Wed May 26, 2004 3:06 pm

What are you talking about? Not only will it be unlocked and have the keys inside, but you will find an assault rifle, a rocket launcher, and at least three grenades inside of that car. Why else would people like Arnold make such realistic movies about America?

4too · Post by **4too** » Wed May 26, 2004 3:21 pm

Means To An End

In the '60's there was a rush to marry, at least at one point, because it would "defer" ones' selective service 1-A status, or cancel it, fuzzy on this detail, I was just too ... young, to be aware, but as one can see, I was "aware" enough to log the data.

I imagine a pre-med might B.S. long enough to get a .. B.S. or a M.D. Might have to show up for ROTC and do "6", or even "8", if the gov. finances the med school.

Being a Corp-man or Medic might give one hands on medical experience, but the private sector has a lock on civilian qualifications. Might only be able to take blood pressure at some sub par wage until one finishes nursing, paramedic, physicians assistant, or full M.D. school. Military skills are not always "honored" by job placement or compensation, unless one joins one of those "privatized" paramilitary contractors. Always first to be cut to balance the budget, "veteran" benifits drift toward "lip service" and under funded, under staffed hospitals...

It was well known to us kid's in the '60's that the National Guard was the refuge of "Sunshine Patriots". It was for, either, the lucky or the priviledged. Unless one was Air National Guard, one might have to show up at hurricane/tornado/flood relief or your local riot, whether it be "ethnic' or 'anti-war'.

Here I wander to the dubious "safety" of the alternate services. Whether it's "natiional service" or "peace movement".

Remember, "the commies" that died at Kent State were students 'present' to attend scheduled classes. Research the history to 'hear' why the college wasn't closed once the Ohio Governor's Private Army was called in to enforce the law.

Technically the "4 Dead In Ohio" were not riotors or even demonstrators but "innocent bystanders". One can question the ethics of the 'Peace Movement' for rock throwing, at anyone ..., as well as the Righteousness of those in "Authority" of sending Guard troops, ready for an urban riot, meaning issued live ammo, onto the campus to "pacify" a "Peace Demonstration". Another label for the "4 Dead" might be "Cannon Fodder", depending on one's "political' world view.

But hey, I doubt in this "Total Information Age" that more than 2 at a time will conjuregate to exchange dissenting opinions. Unless the head banging will make good "red meat" for FOX NEWS ....

Fox News, proof that the concept of the "Liberal Media" is a myth, a straw man, or a stick to brow beat any discussion into complacent silence.

So, as the Political Correctness pendulum swings to the Right.

""The Ones With The Guns.""

Unless one is 'lucky" like V.P. Dick Cheney, or Post-P. "Slick Willy" Clinton, and can score multiple draft deferments, ...

Here I'm spinning back to this alternate "career" planning ...

The best alternative may be....

DIVINITY SCHOOL!!!!!!!

MANY future Republican functionaries that surfaced in the late '70's and the '80's, '90's, ...

GOT THE CALLING,

and rode out 'that war', in college. Might have to hide the whiskey in a mouth wash bottle and troll for babes at the Wednesday prayer meetings,

... BUT HEY! YOU ARE SAVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And looking at the scandals of the TV Preachers, the drugs and sex, the embezzlement of 'church' funds, the 'party hardy' life style is still available,

....and even if one gets 'caught', there's still the lucritive aspects of public redemption; the "tell all", post community service, "book deal", maybe even a PHAT talk radio contract ...

4too

CloudNineGT · Post by **CloudNineGT** » Wed May 26, 2004 3:39 pm

Or you could just join the army when they draft you.

LlamaGod · Post by **LlamaGod** » Wed May 26, 2004 3:49 pm

Running to Canada won't work. New legislation requires checks at the borders.

Hench the siege weapons.

MurPHy · Post by **MurPHy** » Wed May 26, 2004 5:24 pm

4too wrote:Fox News, proof that the concept of the "Liberal Media" is a myth

You need to lay off of the weed, hippie. CBS, ABC, NBC, MSNBC, CNN, The Washington Post, The New York Times, The Gloucester County Times (here in Jersey), The Daily Journal (in Vineland NJ), and nearly every other print and television media out there is obviously biased in a liberal sort of way. FOX is the only "non-liberal" news station out there. Again I say, lay off the weed, hippie.

As for the Draft, the reason for reinstituting it is a bad one at best, but if it is reinstituted, I will serve if called. The most honorable and noble thing a man can do in his life is to serve his fellow countrymen in times of need. I am a firm believer in that. I am not one of those around here who would skirt by their responsibility to their country and go to Canada. I am an honorable man, and will do my duty if I am called to do so. My actions, not these words you see here, prove this disposition.

PS: Sorry if I sound harsh, but I have a number of firm beliefs, and this is one of them.

CloudNineGT · Post by **CloudNineGT** » Wed May 26, 2004 5:37 pm

Thats what I'm thinking, after all I've lived here a while and I might as well give something back. Besides, I think I like Iraq more than Canada.

MurPHy · Post by **MurPHy** » Wed May 26, 2004 5:45 pm

[quote"CloudNineGT"]Thats what I'm thinking, after all I've lived here a while and I might as well give something back. Besides, I think I like Iraq more than Canada.[/quote]

Yeah. If you have the privelidge of living here, you might as well be willing to give something back if they call you. I'm not sure about volunteering, though. I might, but then I won't be able to sit on my ass all day, which probably would be a good thing.

Iraq might be nice. Hey, you'll get a killer tan! (free too!) Canada seems like a nice place to visit, but the fact that there are more cows than people is kind of unsettling.

S4ur0n27 · Post by **S4ur0n27** » Wed May 26, 2004 6:07 pm

MurPHy wrote:I will serve if called. The most honorable and noble thing a man can do in his life is to serve his fellow countrymen in times of need. I am a firm believer in that. I am not one of those around here who would skirt by their responsibility to their country and go to Canada. I am an honorable man, and will do my duty if I am called to do so. My actions, not these words you see here, prove this disposition.

It surely is true, but not fighting isn't necessarily cowardise. It's not everyone who feels attached, linked to a country and it's people.
I wouldn't go to war for Canada? If they ever decide to fight with Denmark for this piece of ice between Groenland and Nunavut there is no way I'm gonna fight for this?

There are extenuating circumstances.

Mandalorian FaLLouT GoD · Wed May 26, 2004 8:50 pm

MurPHy wrote: As for the Draft, the reason for reinstituting it is a bad one at best, but if it is reinstituted, I will serve if called. The most honorable and noble thing a man can do in his life is to serve his fellow countrymen in times of need. I am a firm believer in that. I am not one of those around here who would skirt by their responsibility to their country and go to Canada. I am an honorable man, and will do my duty if I am called to do so. My actions, not these words you see here, prove this disposition.

Time of need?
The americans shouldnt even be in iraq. The government started it and wasted lives turning it into another vietnam.
When they are forced to pull out and you possibly live would you think fighting for your government was so good?
I mean, look at the way vietnam vets are treated. They get shafted by the government on every possible occasion and all they did was lose almost everything in a useless war.
Shit, they get treated like blacks in the south during the civil war even now.

EDIT: i would serve if canada drafted for a war that was worth fighting. but canada isnt stupid enough to goto war over shit that doesnt accomplish anything.

Kashluk · Post by **Kashluk** » Wed May 26, 2004 9:00 pm

Hell, I have never agreed with Mandalorian more.

As I said before, draft is good, but then again it's even better if you stick your nose out of other peoples' business. We have a compulsory military / civil alternative service here in Finland and it works just fine for a country of our size & agenda.

We only need our troops to guard our borders and our own homeland + we don't want to have the ill effects of a hired army (which appear to be relatively noticeable in small scale), like the appeal for the shadier parts of society... It's also cheaper for us and military training has proved to be very useful in everyday life as well. Some extra exercise, management and leadership skills and some general know-how of wilderness survival never hurts.

So, I think it's a double-edged sword really - for some places it works and for some places it doesn't. US foreign & military policy combined with draft only gives me the creeps. To make sure, I'm not on one of my anti-Amerikan sprees again. I was thinking this from an average American's point of view. Forcing people to serve in the army doesn't really seem to fit in the American dream...

jetbaby · Post by **jetbaby** » Wed May 26, 2004 11:43 pm

I will serve if called, though I will do it without any belief in the cause I will go off to die for. However, if I can marry a foreign citizen and move out of the country before then...

CloudNineGT · Post by **CloudNineGT** » Thu May 27, 2004 2:43 am

Someoes gotta go get our oil so we can keep on living in a dream world.

4too · Post by **4too** » Thu May 27, 2004 3:14 am

""There You Go Again ...""

MurPHy:

You need to lay off of the weed, hippie. CBS, ABC, NBC, MSNBC, CNN, The Washington Post, The New York Times, The Gloucester County Times (here in Jersey), The Daily Journal (in Vineland NJ), and nearly every other print and television media out there is obviously biased in a liberal sort of way. FOX is the only "non-liberal" news station out there. Again I say, lay off the weed, hippie.

You -profile- me as a "hippie" and a drug addict, when I challenge the paranoid fantasies of our populist COMMERCIAL MEDIA. Am I to assume
a posture of silent submission or may I interest you in my own bitter vision of media manipulation?

Question the clarity of my thought, the fuzzy filtering and cynical attitude,
but please, please Briar FOX don't throw me in that "Hippie" brier patch!

Obviously, advising hypothetical draft dodgers to "get religion" to perpetuate their hedonistic lifestyle did not soften your righteous indignation for the topic in general. But the "running" joke of "running" to Canada was bogging down, and irony of how our leaders "coped" with "Nam" seemed too timely to leave out of this discussion. I suggest there is a universal aspect to human folly.

The "news" is a big corporation, and a lucritive buisness that reflects what the writers and programmers, AND THE OWNERS AND MANAGEMENT, think will sell. The liberal spin you detect has been wearing thin for years, and I commend you on being able to detect when it skews to the ""liberal"" "ad-genda".

There is a majority of "news" consumers that want their info'tainment to be warm and fuzzy, and in this country "agreement" of the warm and fuzzy kind tends to be the "liberal illusion" of the big tent.

It's mass media designed for mass appeal.

If you call your ideals "conservative" and you are a person of strong moral conviction, then being in the minority opinion at any given moment will not
change your mind or embitter your world view.

The conservatives I've voted for are of the "cowboy" tradition: The Tradition of individual freedom. My God given right to sink or swim on my own, rather than "Big Government" choose'n the time to shove my head under ...

I see Fox News as more market'eers shaping their content to grab market share. You are obviously in agreement with their packaging. If you can balance multiple news sources, ""doin' your homework"" as a libertarian talk host advises, then your vision will not be clouded by the bitter rancour of any flavor of extremist.

I propose that the concept of "the liberal media" is waved before our eyes
to misdirect our attention. It's become the old cliche of 'killing the messanger'. It's the DRAMA of the media marketplace. It's WW Wrestling trash talk to fill the empty air. It's part of the COMMERCE of ideas that has kept our country roaring down the middle of the road for over two hundred years. ... And out of the extremist ditches to the left and the right.

So we don't have to "love it or leave it", just turn the channel or better yet, turn off that TV. Go out and see God's big world. Get our hands dirty in the miasma of ideas. Craft our own opinions. ... it's part of the price of freedom....

Roll your own cowboy!

4too