Duck and Cover

Something I'd like. A lack of a desert eagle. For that matter, I'de like a lack of real firearms that are after the timeline differation period. Hell, just general firearms are fine like "Assault Rifle" and such.

As previousily mentioned; TB combat that isn't half assed as well as a good plot. I don't want dumbed down shit like Morrowind simply cause this is gonna be on a platform other then PC.

Also - I don't want a viewpoint change. I want just normal good old isometric - Although maybe turnable or something?

Saint_Proverbius said:

It's a lot easier to make a pipe rifle or zip gun than a crossbow, especially with all the junk lying around.

Actually I don’t think you could be more wrong, single shot pipe rifles and zip guns are not rifled they are smooth bore weapons of limited value and effectiveness due to their extreme inaccuracy (a 9mm slug flying end over end is however nasty at close range). Also such improvised firearms present nearly as much danger to the user as the target. right now Just try to find a piece of extruded seamless steel pipe that has an internal diameter of exactly .357 or .30 or .45 or .729 (12ga) you might be able to find alot of plumbing pipe around but that stuff cant take the 30,000 psi to 50,000 psi that a moderate cartridge generates when fired.

Pistols have poor performance against heavy metal armor unless we are talking about steel core magnum ammo. Another thing is that a bolt isn’t an arrow it is a dense fin stabilized projectile with a heavy steel tip. The crossbow is well represented in post apoc fiction and films like Mad Max, and the road warrior, for instance.

And:

It's not like there are a surplus of good trees in Fallout also.

Wood wouldn't be a problem, the best xbow's of the middle ages most often had limbs made of spring steel and could knock a man down at 150 yards and punch through a knights metal breastplate at that range. There also seems to be plenty of spring steel junk around in the fallout world where did you get the idea that crossbows have wooden limbs?.

and finally:

In addition to that, if it sucked against metal armors, you're talking about implimenting a totally new class of weapon and graphics content that's only going to be useful in the early game. It's a waste of time that could be spent on something actually interesting and less stupid.

Hmmm? They should spend that time making pipe rifle and zip gun graphics depicting some fool getting his head blown off by his own weapon? As a matter of fact a crossbow is fired exactly like a rifle and from the same shooting positions standing, kneeling, and prone the modification to those graphics would be a minimal concern for a studio.

You are right it would be a weapon best used early in the game I am sure you didn’t use a pipe rifle or a spear against the Enclave and neither would anyone want to fight an AK47 armed raider with a crossbow unless he had to.

Also I am not so sure there would be that much ammo lying around after a century or two since the bombs fell people would turn to improvised weapons in areas where ammo is scarce. Ammo would be like money in such a world. Would you really want to waste good teflon coated steel core ammo made by the Brotherhood of steel on wolves and dogs or piss bum thugs armed with spears and clubs? But like all thinking beings we would ditch those pipe rifles and crossbows the instant a good reliable firearm and a supply of ammo became available.

A testament to the penetration of a Crossbow bolt.

A half a dozen years ago I was tooling around the southern California desert on a field operation with 1st tank battalion 7th MEB and I found half of a Kevlar body armor laying in the dirt. I tossed it on my tank and forgot about it until I got back to the rear. I decided to test it against 9mm ball ammunition and broad heads from my barnette 150lb thunderbolt II crossbow. The results were that at 50 yards the 9mm didn’t penetrate but the crossbow bolts did at ranges beyond about 75 yards the crossbow also didn’t penetrate. I also tested the same two weapons against an old WW2 Gi helmet and at 50 yards the 9mm made a nice hole in it where the crossbow bolt simply put a big dent in it. Then again the commercial crossbows of today are less than 1/2 as powerful as 300 pound pull steel limbed war crossbows of yesteryear.

I suppose by your line of reasoning improvised weapons should be banished from the game and only glistening BOS assault rifles and plasma rifles should be in the mix. The truth of the matter is that in a post APOC world blacksmiths and tradesmen would be working overtime creating all sorts of improvised weapons from knives and studded clubs to crossbows and even improvised firearms.

Try knowint WTF your talking about.

New
Ammo
Was
Being
Made

It's not like they were running out slowley.

PsychoSniper scribbled

Try knowint WTF your talking about New
Ammo
Was
Being
Made

man thats a brilliant statment.


I think to someone that can read this means that I know that new ammo is being made in fallout.

Would you really want to waste good teflon coated steel core ammo made by the Brotherhood of steel on wolves and dogs or piss bum thugs armed with spears and clubs?

no reason to get snotty

It all boils down to this.

Why have new weapons like crossbows when we havent seen them in Fallout ?

Fallout is supposed to be a 50's THEMED retrofutrure in a PA setting.

Where, from the 50's theme that FO is based on, would crossbows come into play ?

PsychoSniper says:

It all boils down to this.

Why have new weapons like crossbows when we havent seen them in Fallout ?

Fallout is supposed to be a 50's THEMED retrofutrure in a PA setting.

Where, from the 50's theme that FO is based on, would crossbows come into play ?

That statment make alot of sense in FO 1 & 2 even the plasma rifles looked clunky like a 1950's thing. I really hated it when they changed the the plasma rifle in FOT to a more modern looking piece of gear. I would like to see some new stuff in FO3. I have to admit I liked the Light assault weapon they introduced in FO2 and the Bozar but niether of those were 1950s technology. Whatever they introduce should have a 1950's cold war look to it.

In answer to your question I suppose that a crossbow would come into play via the same rout that spears did but they are not necessary. I do value the 1950's theme. but if I cant have one how about a silencer that fits a hand gun?

RETRO WEAPONRY


The ultimate in retro firepower but ya need power armor to use it.

how about a M1919a4 .30 cal browning machine gun as a heavy weapon now thats a serious piece of 1950s retro gear?

What about a nice M1918a2 BAR?

what about a Korean war vintage M1 garand sniper rifle? rerto enough?

what about a nice looking M2 carbine from the 1940's 50's?

I say keep it retro whatever the cost even if I cant have my crossbow. At the end of the day Bethesda needs to recapture and enhance the 1950's retro look in whatever they put out.

I agree- keep it 50's pulp That'd what I feel is one of the most important things about FO, that we keep the entire universe intact, and seeing as it is based on the 50's pulp science fiction, we need to it revovling around that.

As for a crossbow: I like the idea, it's cool and all, but these things weren't the rage back in the 50's and so we shouldn't expect them to become something people thought of later- bow's and arrows would be much more pheosable :-/

However, as for the whole bolt'n armor thing: maybe, if they made a bow/crossbow, they could give huge bonusses when aiming for the head? The head isn't protected by a helmet until you get Combat Armour and PA, so headshots on people with lesser armour should always negate the armour-bonus a person otherwise gets

Dont froget the Ma Deuce.

The Browning M-2 .50 cal was devolped in the WW1 era, anc since the bibble states that the AU aspect takes place AFTER WW2 that means it would be ok.

and Tank, I agree on that headshot idea.

PsychoSniper wrote:It all boils down to this.

I like you, PS, but you were being obtuse with the "Try knowint WTF your talking about" line. No way around it.

Why have new weapons like crossbows when we havent seen them in Fallout ?

I don't like the concept of crossbows shoved into Fallout's setting, but i think its strange that you wouldn't accept new weapons in a Fallout game simply because they weren't seen before.

It's both the seqtting, plus the lack of having seen them before Role-Player.

If we had seen them in an earlier game, I wouldnt mind, but since we havent seen them before PLUS it doesnt fit that well with the setting (in the US, archery wasnt that big in the 50's) is why I dont like it.

Though I'd help if xbow wanted to make his own crossbow FRMs for FO/FO2, since mods are totaly differnt than the game itself.

How about less customization and more gameplay. I don't care if I can alter every square inch of my body with tattoos and piercings and scars and paint-splashed, bloodstained armor if the game is only 34 minutes long.

I don't buy the game to oogle my character for a few hours, I don't know about you guys.




However, a nice soundtrack would be loverly. Something classic. No newage bullshit. I want some nice mellow jazz. What better to keel teh nubz to than some nice swing or blues? I swear to god if there is a single metal or electronica song...

Yeah, I dont see why all that 'OMGZZzzzzz I shawld be albe to custom meke me armer lol!!!!11111oneone!1111' shit makes much sense. FO has armor as as ingle unit.

Helmets make some sense, hence their use in VanBuren. but fully customisable characthers ISNT a fallout thing.

Now I wouldnt mind some of the more agressive 1950's rock and roll made it into FO3 'great balls of fire' you can do anything that ya wanna do but don't be stepping on my blue sued shoes!

seriously though a bunch of heavy metal would reek on Fallout3 eventhough I am a metal head. I like the old fallout1 +2 bacground music myself but the night sounds of fallout tactics rule.

oh in fact I am sure that in FO1 + 2 they planned to have bows of some sort but didnt get around to it since the cursor you see in the game is in fact a razorback broadhead from an arrow, and the 1950's and early 1960's were considered the golden era of bow hunting in the USA.


oh ya and lest I forget

lets make miniguns and M2HB machine guns be usable only by Mutants or Humans wearing Power Armor after all the M2+ barrel minus ammo and a tripod weights about 150 pounds just try humping that hog's reciever across the motorpool to the armory sometime and a 100 round belt of ammo weights in at + 40 pounds. Its the same story with the mini gun show me the guy humping and using an AC47 mini gun like it was a SAAW and ill show you god besides that it was a piece of 60's technology.

xbox wrote:Actually I don’t think you could be more wrong, single shot pipe rifles and zip guns are not rifled they are smooth bore weapons of limited value and effectiveness due to their extreme inaccuracy (a 9mm slug flying end over end is however nasty at close range).

Versus a crossbow bolt? Just the velocity of the bullet alone will make it far more accurate than the bolt. The density of the bullet will help it a great deal as well when it's cutting through the air - versus a bolt, which has an uneven weight distribution over a thin, cylindrical body. Seriously, if you want to argue that pistols and pipe rifles are inaccurate, you really shouldn' have started with the basis of a crossbow. Even muskets were better than crossbows, and they're certainly less advanced than a zip gun or pipe rifle.

Also such improvised firearms present nearly as much danger to the user as the target. right now Just try to find a piece of extruded seamless steel pipe that has an internal diameter of exactly .357 or .30 or .45 or .729 (12ga) you might be able to find alot of plumbing pipe around but that stuff cant take the 30,000 psi to 50,000 psi that a moderate cartridge generates when fired.

Considering 10MM is the most abundant ammo type in Fallout, and it's also a pretty common size of piping...

Pistols have poor performance against heavy metal armor unless we are talking about steel core magnum ammo. Another thing is that a bolt isn’t an arrow it is a dense fin stabilized projectile with a heavy steel tip.

Would this be a bad time to mention that nearly all the ammo in Fallout also came in an Armor Piercing variety? Even the stuff for the pistols.

The crossbow is well represented in post apoc fiction and films like Mad Max, and the road warrior, for instance.

So were cars. Didn't see many of them in Fallout.

Hmmm? They should spend that time making pipe rifle and zip gun graphics depicting some fool getting his head blown off by his own weapon?

This is a two part question, the first part is that rifles pretty much look alike from a 3/4 view overhead viewpoint. The second part, even though it's just you trying to be idiotic, could be handled by the same animation as getting hit with a grenade.

As a matter of fact a crossbow is fired exactly like a rifle and from the same shooting positions standing, kneeling, and prone the modification to those graphics would be a minimal concern for a studio.

Ummm.. Yeah.. There's no difference between walking around with a crossbow or firing it, than a rifle. Yeah. Those spring arms never get in the way of anything. Oh, and I forgot that crossbows have the same amount of kick as a rifle, too. In case they want to do additional animations for other events with a weapon, it's a great thing that crossbows take clips - just like rifles.

You are right it would be a weapon best used early in the game I am sure you didn’t use a pipe rifle or a spear against the Enclave and neither would anyone want to fight an AK47 armed raider with a crossbow unless he had to.

AK-47?

Also I am not so sure there would be that much ammo lying around after a century or two since the bombs fell people would turn to improvised weapons in areas where ammo is scarce. Ammo would be like money in such a world. Would you really want to waste good teflon coated steel core ammo made by the Brotherhood of steel on wolves and dogs or piss bum thugs armed with spears and clubs? But like all thinking beings we would ditch those pipe rifles and crossbows the instant a good reliable firearm and a supply of ammo became available.

Better than the BoS, Vault City, Gunrunners, the smith in Adytum, and so on? If they're all churning it out in California, then I'd say more people are in California that you don't see in addition to near by areas.

Just a thought.
Or, rather a question.
I have been pondering this for a while.
All Fallout communities have Fallout3 discussions in their forums. And most probably have a suggestions or "What do you want in fallout3 thread".
Does game developers check the different fansites for their opinion, or do they only listen to what is said in their own forums?
Should they listen only to people in their own forums then there might be some cause for concern. SOme suggestions one can read at the bethesda forums are more painful than pulling a pair of clogs out out your anus.

So, show and tell.

Unless they altered it, last I checked Bethesda didn't even HAVE a fallout forum.

They have one under construction, actualy.

It wont be made avalible til their FO site is done though.

What I'd like to see is the ability to have blonde or red hair! Well that and other things. I liked the addition of crouching and cover that Tactics added.

PsychoSniper, you go too far with the "it wasn't in FO, it's not a Fallout thing" stuff. Customizable armor would be a good addition, especially to the called shots system (if the AI was smart enough to target the head etc. of course). You'd have different elements of armor protecting the targetable body parts.

But that would change things TO much, in my opinion.