Republican Rhetoric

MurPHy · Post by **MurPHy** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 4:38 am

Dare I get involved in this "discussion"?

Maybe not. I might get burned.

Doc Hill · Post by **Doc Hill** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 4:47 am

xbow wrote:Blargh

you are one stupid little shit.

You should have said he was a stupid little poopie head. Be nice.

Kashluk · Post by **Kashluk** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 5:48 am

Yay, my sucky-sucky English was to blame for my little outburst over there. Sorry, people.

But to "add" to this nice little conversation:

Free healthcare and education > a great military might.

I know, because I'm living in a country with the former, punks. I live in a country where I don't need to lock my doors at night in fear of some crazy people coming to rape me in the ass or to slay my family and friends. I live in a country where I can walk down the streets after dark, without fear of being mutilated behind every corner. I live in a country that has clean enviroment and social equality. I live in a country where I can study for free, through elementary to university, and I have free dental care till I'm 18 and free health care for the rest of my life.

Sure our military sucks. Sure we can't own as much handguns as people would want to. Sure we don't have any WMDs to brag about. But I think the good sides outweigh the bad sides big time.

MurPHy · Post by **MurPHy** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:17 am

I live in a country where I don't need to lock my doors at night in fear of some crazy people coming to rape me in the ass or to slay my family and friends. I live in a country where I can walk down the streets after dark, without fear of being mutilated behind every corner. I live in a country that has clean enviroment and social equality.

Your're supposed to talk about your country, Kash! Not the USA! That sounds about right for where I live (the good parts).

airsoft guy · Post by **airsoft guy** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:34 am

MurPHy wrote:
I live in a country where I don't need to lock my doors at night in fear of some crazy people coming to rape me in the ass or to slay my family and friends. I live in a country where I can walk down the streets after dark, without fear of being mutilated behind every corner. I live in a country that has clean enviroment and social equality.
Your're supposed to talk about your country, Kash! Not the USA! That sounds about right for where I live (the good parts).

True. The vast majority of the United States is a safe place. It's only in the densly populated areas, such as major cities, is there a reason to fear. The most crime around here is people passing through (had a car chase end in a most unpleasant way for the runner up here about a year ago. Guess he couldn't handle our podunk streets) and the occasional theft. When I was a kid I had my bike stolen which pissed me off and then a few years later, about the time I was in junior high some assclown started stealing our gas. I went to school and mentioned it and how my dad said he might give me a rifle and have me hide in the yard somewhere. Soon after the theft stopped. That's about it.

Spazmo · Post by **Spazmo** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:39 am

Kashluk wrote:I live in a country that has clean enviroment and social equality.

No, you don't. I don't care if it's Finland or the moon, nowhere has clean environment and social equality. I'm willing to believe Helsinki is nicer than Detroit, but, shit, anyone remember when Kash was a nazi? And then he goes on about social equality? No such thing.

Blargh · Post by **Blargh** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:55 am

xbow wrote:Blargh

you are one stupid little shit.

*laughs*

Such venom !

. . No, I'll take a leaf out of ExtremeDrinker's book - not only are you not worth the time, but as can be seen you are doing well enough to further illustrate your bloody minded gormlessness on your own. Though it is hardly a redeeming quality - you are a funny one.

MurPHy · Post by **MurPHy** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 7:01 am

I'm willing to believe Helsinki is nicer than Detroit, but, shit, anyone remember when Kash was a nazi?

He was a nazi? I thought that he was just being a hardass.

airsoft guy wrote:and the occasional theft.

Yeah. That happens here too. When I was about 6, I had my bike stolen. The only other theft/crime that I know of after that is when my house got broken into about a year ago. The cocksucker stole my PS2 and PS1, my sister's gameboy advance, and a bunch of jewelry. We got everything but the jewelry back about 2 days later (when they caught the guy). God bless the West Deptford cops.

For those of you who are wondering, no, he wasn't a swell guy. Those kind are rarely seen around here. He was a fucking heroin addict. Fucker.

He got his, though. About a week after this we heard that he OD'd on something. All I thought was "good". And I still do.

Besides that, it's pretty quiet around here. Just your average South Jersey suburb.

xbow · Post by **xbow** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 7:04 am

In my town we had one armed robbery from December 2003 to August 2004 and the last murder took place in mid 2002. I don't always remember to lock up the house when I leave for work and I have never been the victim of a burglary. Since I live in the desert I leave the windows of my truck open all the time and also have never been ripped off. There are a few felony cases of domestic violence here every year but those are mostly alcohol driven.

Its pretty funny when people assume that the USA is one big LA with armed gangs traversing the streets in search of prey. Hell even the worst part of LA is not as exciting or hostile as it is depicted by the foreign press. I am white and I could go to Compton do a little shopping have a beer in a local bar hit an in and out burger head for home and never experience any nastiness at all. Also our cops are not all over the streets rousting people at gunpoint after racially profiling them.

xbow · Post by **xbow** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 7:12 am

Blargh wrote:No, I'll take a leaf out of ExtremeDrinker's book - not only are you not worth the time, but as can be seen you are doing well enough to further illustrate your bloody minded gormlessness on your own. Though it is hardly a redeeming quality - yo

That figures, I would never have imagined in a million years that you had the capability to generate anything original.

Wolfman Walt · Post by **Wolfman Walt** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 7:35 am

And people wonder why I stay out of political arguments where its mostly a matter of opinion. Same thing with arguments on religion.

jetbaby · Post by **jetbaby** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 9:25 am

God damn kids. Discuss. Don't argue. DISCUSS.

Aristotle believed that there was no truth, that there was only perception, and discussion exists to share said perception in a manor that should not invoke anger because the participants should be above that, knowing that threats are meaningless because if they are used, that person has obviously gone over the edge on one side or another and further commenting in such a mood is useless and pointless. Thus, continue,

SDMVersion3 · Post by **SDMVersion3** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:14 am

xbow wrote:The rest of your derisive rant is just to shabby to even be called cheap but I understand you anger so I wont respond to them.

six new designs introduced by Canada name them you have my attention!

I wasn't angry; sarcastic. If I match up America and Canada I prefer Canada. Obviously you prefer America. But to say that becauase America is a stronger country millitarilly and in international affairs makes it the better nation is not a fair comparission for several reasons, one of which is the catastrophe and error, misdirection, misinformation, and general misguided efforts in American international affairs.

Six new designs. The biggest one was the Coyote Light Assault and Reconnisance vehicle, all purpose lav that boasts advanced sensor and detection packages.

http://www.dnd.ca/menu/coyote/hi/33.htm

Included in the Coyote is the MiDAS package, a Military Digital Analysis System. Here's a blurb on it:

MiDAS is a sophisticated radio surveillance system designed to perform detection, analysis and source localization of communications signals. Based on extensive research, MiDAS uses commercial-off-the-shelf (COTS) antennas, tuners, and digitizers in concert with software running under the Windows 2000 operating system on a server class computer. The combination of advanced digital signal processing techniques and the innovative application of COTS technology provides a cost-effective multi-purpose capability. System configurations can be readily tailored to match specific application requirements.

MiDAS was bought by the American's to reverse engineer and analyze, likely to be adapted into future APCs and LAVs.

Gonna have to stop there. It's hard to find information online. I went to a CF recruitment drive at the Pacific National Exhibition where I was able to talk to Canadian soldiers about millitary technology and more important at the time in my mind, space technologies (since it was around the time of tthe recent shuttle accident). It was said though that people were amazed by the Coyote and some of the Canadian land based sattelite technology. They were showing off a tank, that was not the Coyote, that they said was going to be their first major tank project undertaken in about a decade. I believe it as well rolled at least a dozen into Afghanistan. In any case, you can Google (what I did) to find links and quotes and whatnot, but it's hard searching since it comes up with PDFs, which aren't user friendly. In any case, an interesting article was found here with Canada's stance on the war on terror.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/newsroom/v ... asp?id=490

Jimmyjay86 · Post by **Jimmyjay86** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 3:21 pm

Kash's comparison of free healthcare and education with a more safe environment to live is quite simply ludicrous. The two are not related so why try to pretend they are? Finland may be a safe place to live free from crime but then again there are the bad aspects of life in Finland with all the herds of reindeer running through the streets making driving hazardous. The causes of crime are difficult to understand. Billions of dollars have been spent on studies that simplify the causes so politicians can pass some feel-good legislation. I don't think there is one person who totally understands crime. But then again I wouldn't consider the US as the worst spot to live because of it. Also as long as you use common sense you can almost entirely avoid it.

I did go to the Bush Rally and was thoroughly bored. We had to be there several hours before he showed up and went through several levels of security checks. No anal cavity checks fortunately. Then once inside you could load up on all conceivable free signs and things. Some lame cover rock band was playing good ole' rock and roll like John Mellencamp and Elvis to whip people into a frenzy even though half the people were retirees or older. Then before he showed up there were speeches by local and state politicians excitedly saying how much the Republicans were going to kick some butt. the funniest part was when two cheerleaders came on stage and told the crowd what to do when the W came in. We were supposed to do like at football games and shout at the appropriate moments "GO, BUSH, GO!" instead of "GO, TEAM, GO!".

Basically it was a massive Republican circle jerk where everyone's ego was massaged to the point of political climax. They were going to win the election by cracky and everyone was proof positive of it judging by the high volume cheering echoing in the halls. There was no dissention and it would be almost impossible to hear anyway. Bush gave a bland speech when he could quiet the crowd's applause telling how he had improved the country in his last four years and how Kerry would destroy the future of the USA by increasing taxes and incresing government spending. Apparently the huge number of new jobs and strength of American industry were proof positive of Bush's legislation and direction. Based on news reports I have always got the impression that there were fewer new jobs and industry within the country was the worst it has ever been but what do I know - I'm not in charge...

airsoft guy · Post by **airsoft guy** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 4:21 pm

Sure it's a political circle-jerk, but they all are. All these conventions are is places where the party gets together to brag about themselves and then say how much the other guys suck cock. Correct?

xbow · Post by **xbow** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 4:27 pm

SDMversion3

Here is something that you might find interesting about Canada's tank force if you don't already know. There is a competition between NATO tank crews called CAT (Canadian Army Trophy). The competition is a bit like a precision rifle match that pits the best tank platoons and the best individual tank crews in NATO against each other on a tactical gunnery range.

Before the introduction of the Leopard 2 and the M1A1 the trophy used to live in Canada. Now With the introduction of the Canadian modified Leopard C2 with its full solution ballistic computer and excellent domestically produced stabilization system the Canadians no longer suffer from a technological gap and are back in the saddle so to speak.

The Canadians won that trophy so consistently because the system of advancement up through the ranks is unique and far better than any other system in NATO. In a Canadian Tank platoon you will never see a young inexperienced commissioned officer in charge. The Canadians instead advance the best of their NCO's to the rank of warrant officer and use those experienced men as their small unit leaders. In a Canadian Tank unit there are only two commissioned officers the CO and the X0 and quite often those officers have served their fair share of time in the ranks as enlisted men and then were promoted to warrant officer after proving themselves. Such men are then advanced to the level commissioned level only after competitive examinations and proof of proficiency as well as the completion of a very tough officers candidate school.

The Canadian army on a whole is a bit like a meritocracy where only the very best people rise to the top through proven proficiency and commitment to national defense. The Army is completely blind to such social issues like race color creed and gender. This is only possible because of the small size of the Canadian military. The Canadian Army simply can't afford to encumber themselves with such external concerns. Additionally the general demeanor and depth of experience of Canadian officers is much more conducive to the maintenance of a smooth functioning professional unit. This merit system is applied wherever possible in the Canadian military and as a result the force may be small but it is highly professional and hence highly effective in combat.

Our military is on the other hand encumbered by all of the previously mentioned social concerns thanks to the left wing poster boy Bill Clinton and his social experimentation within the US Military. As a result our force is not nearly as professional as it should be and people do receive promotions based on things other than pure proficiency and commitment to national defense. You will however never get a high ranking US officer to admit this fact in public because to do so would signal the abrupt end of his career. The standard party line belched from our commanders is ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‹Å“this is the best force we have ever hadÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢ and that is a bald faced lie.

In any case I checked out the Coyote pretty cool system and more information on all Canadian weapon systems can be found at
http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/English ... nabled=1&

xbow · Post by **xbow** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 5:00 pm

I wasnt exactly enthralled by the democratic partys convention coverage either. All political conventions are boring beat the drum for your boy affairs and nothing more. You wouldnt go to a Ford convention and expect to see a speaker talking in glowing terms about a new Chevy would you?

Both the democratic and republican parties are simply mechanisms through which special interest groups work to get their particular itch scratched. Niether side truly represents the best intrest of the American people.

Doc Hill · Post by **Doc Hill** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 5:30 pm

xbow wrote:Our military is on the other hand encumbered by all of the previously mentioned social concerns thanks to the left wing poster boy Bill Clinton and his social experimentation within the US Military. As a result our force is not nearly as professional as it should be and people do receive promotions based on things other than pure proficiency and commitment to national defense. You will however never get a high ranking US officer to admit this fact in public because to do so would signal the abrupt end of his career. The standard party line belched from our commanders is ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‹Å“this is the best force we have ever hadÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢ and that is a bald faced lie.

Ahem. Don't blame Billy boy. The American army has been screwed up since time in memorial. The bulk of them are good, solid people, but there alway imcompatents and flakes. Favoritism too. IT's been that way since...well, earliest examples is the Civil war. I need to do some research, but I recal a Union general that was a complete idiot. Clinton didn't mess the army up, it's been that way from almost the beginning. It's gotten better, and it's gotten worse, the only way to truly fix it is to tear it down to nothing and rebuild from scratch....and that is not going to happen. Besides his marital infedelity, which is none of my business, Clinton was a darned fine president. HE handled domestic situaution, and he did particularly well in the Balkans. Don't demonise him just because he's on the left. He was a ver compitent and sucessful president, leaving office witha booming economy, growing jobs, and a national surplus. I wan't blame everything on Bush, 9/11 damgaed alot of that. But what in the hell was with those tax cuts? We can't afford them, and they were only for the relatively wealthy, the poor, destitute, they got nada.I think he shouldn't have been getting hummers under the desk, but he did his job, that's all I care about. I'm off to research incompetants and favoritism throught the life of then U.S. Army now. Never know when facts like that come in handy.

Kashluk · Post by **Kashluk** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 6:37 pm

Bleh, I knew I shouldn't have gotten into this in the first place. Just ignore me, that's the best way to get over it.

I wasn't trying to screw US. Of course there are safe places and happy people in the States, there's no denying of that. I just tried to point out (and failed miserably, it seems) that I live in a country where things are cool, even if we aren't much of a military might.

That's all. We have compulsory military service, tons of people volunteer for military work etc. etc. but it doesn't really matter when you can't really put up a fight against the big ones. But still things are looking pretty good for us. Guns don't bring bread to your table.

One thing I don't understand is that how my past hos something to do with this discussion, taking place at this very moment. It's easy to end up in the extreme right crowd as a kid. They seem all cool and tough when you can't think straight nor for yourself. I admired them some years ago. Now I pity them. Life goes on. But it still shouldn't mean anything for this little conversation.

Sorry people, if I ended up starting another flame war (again). I just wanted to share my 0.02 $ Like I said - if this seems like the usual bullshit I spew around, then feel free to ignore it.

SDMVersion3 · Post by **SDMVersion3** » Sat Sep 04, 2004 7:27 pm

This is only possible because of the small size of the Canadian military. The Canadian Army simply can't afford to encumber themselves with such external concerns.

I don't know about that. It doesn't make it any harder, but Canadian society on the whole is much, much more tolerante then all but the most liberal of American states. If you've been to Califonia where everyone's getting high regardless of race, religion, or sexual preferance, that's British Columbia with less trees, less rain, and more plastic surgery.

C2! They had one of those there. Couldn't go in it, but it was there.

One thing that Canada has over the US millitary is that the US always starts from scratch and funnels money into R&D. Canadians are lazier and cheaper, and go to Home Depot and buy some radar and duct tape, and make it into a revolutionary piece of technology. Go duct tape.