The Firearms Thread.

[Stalagmite]

Indeed. Just that the cinema has portrayed the American pastime to more epic levels.

[Retlaw83]

Yeah, just like Japanese movies made samurais and feudal Japan look fucking awesome.

Western movies are fun myths, but none of them are based in reality.

[Username]

Firearm ownership is similar (but obviously not the same) as car ownership. It requires personal responsibility and commitment to safe operation. It also requires (a personal requirement, not a legal one) practice, knowledge and common sense to operate properly. I personally would not be completely adverse to at least showing that you can safely use a firearm before being able to purchase one, but that would require a licensing system that I don't support. My other problem is with who would get to decide the requirements for safe operation? More of a philosophical question than anything.

For those of us who do own and operate firearms safely and responsibly for hunting/sport (i.e. IPSIC, 3 Gun)/recreation/self defense the idea that WE (being the law abiding citizens) should be punished (or have our hobby that many of us have spent thousands of dollars or more on suddenly made illegal) is as offensive as having your car taken away because people use them irresponsibly or criminals use them in crimes. I feel IMHO that the Right to Bear Arms is important for many reasons and shouldn't be infringed because of the actions of a few.

As a naturally suspicious person I distrust whenever some politician wants to limit what I can have but I also know I don't have all the answers. I have rifles, shotguns and handguns, I shoot them all regularly and I have never fired a shot in anger. Don't like guns? Don't buy one or move to an area that doesn't have any (do they really exist?) If I commit a violent crime I not only deserve to lose my guns but also deserve to never again be able to purchase one legally.

Just remember. "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away"

Comparing guns to vehicles is a fallacy, it makes no sense. A vehicle is a method of transport, definitely needed more in some parts of the world than in others. You cannot really make a case for guns in the same fashion.
Reversing the liberal argument, give one good reason for why people should be allowed to own guns. I know that you live in the "land of the free" bla bla, but the concept of freedom is a double edged one - freedom to and freedom from. Personally, I am advocate for extremely strict gun laws, mainly because I enjoy the freedom of living in a society that is free of psychologically unstable gun-toting maniacs.
Should people be allowed to own guns? Yes, but I believe that gun control should be far stricter in countries like the States.

Didn't you read my thread? The question is not why but why not. !
But sure I'll answer it.

Citizens should be given the ability to own guns as to protect themselves from immoral and unethical acts of other individuals, the government and the corporation (as that is considered an independent entity, a person, today).

There is no reason to allow only the government to own guns. Governments have shown to radicly differ from their peoples overall feelings a number of times leading to political dissent across the spectrum.
Further more governments have shown themselves suspectable to psychotic traits as have corporations, evident through their many killings, violent adventures and highly inhumane positions.

If only the government is allowed to have guns then a psychotic government will not be possible to stop. Not to mention the problem of a simply in-efficent government to stop ordinary crime.

There are ofcourse other ways to circumvent this and have been proposed by both libertarian and communist thinkers but also nationalists/republicans as those during the French revolution or the Italian national awakening.
Such notions that "militias" or "avant gardé factions" should be the main part of the armed forces. This because such a decentralised, localized army of volounteers is not suspectable to the central governments psychotic whims.

Then again this would create very little of a practical difference from simply arming individual citizens as these militia members would obviously have to keep their arms at homes and would still have the right to use them.

Ofcourse in the communist case this peoples militia or avant gardé movement was dissarmed quite soon after the revolution and lead to Stalin being able to do what he did.

We see the same thing happening today in the United States.
And not only that but the national army is transforming itself from a volountary army to a professional army without the rights a volountary army has. This professional army is contracted and serves under the state as its employer and is law bent to do its every bidding.


Clearly the necessity for a HIGHLY armed public should be evident by these arguments and the effects of the historic events that they portray.

________________

Here is your problem and every other pansies problem.
You read about some psycho kid killing everyone in his school after he was bullied for 10 years. "Omg people can't be trusted with guns".

You don't see the many times a gun has saved a person from a robber or FROM a psychopat. You also clearly fail to recognise the the gun of a citizen as a direct obstacle to a totalitarian government.

But what is worse is that you do not acknowledge the sick state of many of our countries and the reason school shootings are far more prelevant now than they were 50 years ago in ANY country. Why they didn't happen in Finland nor in America nor anywhere else or barely so despite far more lax rules on guns everywhere.

We are more stressed, more worked out, more lonely, we have more psychological problems, etc, etc. Despite living slightly longer (this is predicted to start reverting soon) we are in many ways far worse of. Perhaps it is actually time again to start considering using our guns for more than target practise and nailing the occasional criminal or animal?

(Of-course we have us to blame alot to, the fact that we voted for who ever or the fact that we move to the big metropolies despite the dangerous dust particles, the stress, the lack of community or that we eat the junk food* - so perhaps starting there is the first step).

*Junkfood not being hamburgers but artificial, non-digestive foods that are anything (by their very nature) but benificial for us.

[Wolfman Walt]

Can we talk about cannons again? That's more interesting than the bored and tired "GUNS R EVAL" "NO DEY AIN'T." It might atleast accomplish something.

If you don't think guns should be the hands of citizens? I don't care. If you think they should be? Guess what. I don't really care either. It is what it is and no one is fixing to change anyone's mind and luckily, no one with any real power gives a shit about anyone's opinion on here when it comes to this subject. If you don't like guns. Good. That's your right. No one asked. Similarly. Gun owners? You don't have to justify your owning weapons. No one's mind will be changed even if I fully support your argument. Both sides have been presented well enough. Move on.

[fallout ranger]

I believe that gun control should be far stricter in countries like the States.

Why?

I enjoy the freedom of living in a society that is free of psychologically unstable gun-toting maniacs.

Ah, so we're all maniacs now right? Nonsense.

Comparing guns to vehicles is a fallacy, it makes no sense.

Well, when was the last legislation passed to restrict deadly car ownership? Or add nerf body panels, 35 mph speed limit? You're right there.

Reversing the liberal argument, give one good reason for why people should be allowed to own guns.

Give me a reason why not? Other than THEM THAR GUNS IS BAD. Tell me Sergei Yatzenko wouldn't be alive if he was armed. Or Yen-Yi Yang.



Good points wolfman, why does someone anti-gun post in the firearms thread anyway

[Username]

What is that picture in the left part of your picture fallout?
Cant distinguish it at all.

[fallout ranger]

it's a spider. That's the logo Spike's uses.

[Kashluk]

Comparing guns to vehicles is a fallacy, it makes no sense.

Well, when was the last legislation passed to restrict deadly car ownership? Or add nerf body panels, 35 mph speed limit? You're right there.

- Mandatory periodical vehicle inspection & losing your vehicle
- Driver's license, possibly losing it
- Speed limits on roads, context specific (vehicle & area)
- 'Speed bumps' and other methods of trying to minimize loss of life

[Username]

oh guys my post killed that debate already. One way or an other. Can't we just post pics?

[Kashluk]

Sorry, just couldn't get over that part of fr's post.

BUT MOAR GUNZ!!

http://www.armoria.fi/vanhat_pyssyt/L691/001.jpg

How do you fellows like the .338 round? I've heard it's a real sweet deal when hunting big game. I think my father still has one (like in the picture) locked in the attic or something.

[rad resistance]

Great round to use when hunting deer, elk, or moose.

[Frater Perdurabo]

oh guys my post killed that debate already. One way or an other. Can't we just post pics?

Your "arguments" are absolutely dribble but I cannot be bothered to escalate this, nor is it the point of this thread.

[fallout ranger]

- Mandatory periodical vehicle inspection & losing your vehicle
- Driver's license, possibly losing it
- Speed limits on roads, context specific (vehicle & area)
- 'Speed bumps' and other methods of trying to minimize loss of life

I meant the hardware, cars aren't ever banned/discontinued unless they malfunction and are horribly defective.

And what .338 is that?

[Kashluk]

- Mandatory periodical vehicle inspection & losing your vehicle
- Driver's license, possibly losing it
- Speed limits on roads, context specific (vehicle & area)
- 'Speed bumps' and other methods of trying to minimize loss of life

I meant the hardware, cars aren't ever banned/discontinued unless they malfunction and are horribly defective.

Neither are all firearms banned/discontinued - or can you name an example country? Cars are also put under heavy restrictions and especially if you're driving them on a public road. I just have to continue this a bit since I saw this related news item this morning: the Finnish Chief of Police suggests that all automobiles (new and old) should have 'Alco-Locks' and integrated speed limiters installed in them. He would also lower the DUI-limit to 0,02% BAC.

And what .338 is that?

That's a Sako L691 rifle, from the 1980's. It's got a custom muzzle break (ugly chrome), but otherwise it's identical to the one that my dad's got stored somewhere back in the old farmhouse. Chambered in .338 WinMag.

[fallout ranger]

True, but then again.....ahh fuck it My point was, punishment is on an individual basis (mostly) while gun ownership as a whole is attacked.


338 Win Mag...I'll take 338-06 Ackley thanks:

338 Mag--250 GR. HDY SP Hodgdon H414 65.0 grs 2622 fps

338-06 AI--250 GR. HDY SP Hodgdon H414 60.0 grs 2595 fps



Interesting

[Wolfman Walt]

Since you guys asked for it.

[Stalagmite]

Since you guys asked for it.

If only they had that SPAZ in New Vegas. I noticed they kinda slacked on the shotguns but I'm only at level 12 so maybe better shotties may present themselves in the futeure. The coolest ones I've seen are the Lever action 20 guage and the sawed off 12 guage which I currently carry.

Maybe I should acquire a gun liscense though not sure if they'll let me due to all my speeding tickets lol.

[Retlaw83]

The riot shotgun is a class act, and I'm sure there's one even better than that.

[fallout ranger]

due to all my speeding tickets lol.

Nice gun walt

[Stalagmite]

Pfft, everyone knows Aussies produce the coolest midgrade cars in the world. Take ur second amendment and sheeeuve it.