Happy Hiroshima day!

[Redeye]

I am going to depart this thread for fun by asking a really stupid and
slightly inane question. What if?
The Japanese islands were divided like Korea and Germany?
If there are any Japanese here, I would like to ask... would you sacrifice
two cities to prevent that from happening?
This is based on a deliberately simplistic premise- that the US "zapped"
Japan with nukes to get exclusive post-war control over Japan.
I know there is much more to it than that, but I don't post on DAC
for top-grade intellectual debate/discourse, I come here to regress
and "pee in public".

Regards to DAC regulars, lurkers and assorted freaks.

Well, according to the Russians, the US dropped the bombs on Japan in order to make them broker peace with the Allies before Soviet troops could storm in and conquer the main Japanese island, which would have broadened the Iron Curtain significantly.

While I'm sure that was a consideration, I'm fairly certain ending the damn war quickly was a more pressing factor.

"the business of the US is Business"
Nuke=Cheaper way/quicker way/safer way
Plus bonuses of research data and other goodies.
US not complicated.
Frankenstein see now

[Kahgan]

just a small half-spammy remark I just can't resist:(spammy cos I haven't read the whole thread so I dunno if it's been mentioned (huzzah))

One big problem is that it is ALLWAYS the winner of a war that writes the history. It's a matter of point of view, the christian writings in england and europe describe the vikings as ravaging armed-to-their-teeth wild raving lunaticing barbarians...allthough if you read Snorre(like a norwegian history bible sorta) even though it was written by a christian it does NOT show vikings the same way, for example most people believe that vikings feared dying of old age and that dying in battle was a must..it doesn't even make sense, it's stupid...going to Helheim was not worse than going to Valhalla, you just didn't get to fight alongside with Odin on the age of Ragnarok...

Also, another thing, dropping the a-bombs over hiroshima and nagasaki was absolute definatly not to stop the war, tell me, why did they drop one bomb on a city with mainly civillians(yeah that industrial stuff, that's one of the hell worst damn crappy reasons I've ever herd, urgh!) and one where they didn't even know what the fuck or where the fuck they were dropping it on(nagasaki)
The second bomb was actually dropped because the plane carrying it was getting short on fuel and they didn't know where excactly they were because it was really cloudy and foggy...
And wich is worse? Dieing in combat, probably painfull enough, or getting burnt of hair, skin, eyes, ears, hands, nose, and so on?
Or surviving, maybe getting your clothes burnt up in a second and melting on your skin, blah blah, then after a while you loose your apetite, you start loosing hair, maybe your teeth loosens, you start getting bruises around your body, coughing vometing blood and eventually dieng a slow and extremely painfull death and not even knowing what's ahppened to you?

I dunno, I suppose that the patriots around here won't even think it over, just kinda oversee it, but the truth is that whatever the fuck dropping the a-bombs was a bigger crime against humanity and act of terrorism(note that I'm using those patriotic bullshit expressions the us leaders have made into a clichê) as anything ever happened to the US-of-A...

[Redeye]

just a small half-spammy remark I just can't resist:(spammy cos I haven't read the whole thread so I dunno if it's been mentioned (huzzah))

One big problem is that it is ALLWAYS the winner of a war that writes the history. It's a matter of point of view, the christian writings in england and europe describe the vikings as ravaging armed-to-their-teeth wild raving lunaticing barbarians...allthough if you read Snorre(like a norwegian history bible sorta) even though it was written by a christian it does NOT show vikings the same way, for example most people believe that vikings feared dying of old age and that dying in battle was a must..it doesn't even make sense, it's stupid...going to Helheim was not worse than going to Valhalla, you just didn't get to fight alongside with Odin on the age of Ragnarok...

Also, another thing, dropping the a-bombs over hiroshima and nagasaki was absolute definatly not to stop the war, tell me, why did they drop one bomb on a city with mainly civillians(yeah that industrial stuff, that's one of the hell worst damn crappy reasons I've ever herd, urgh!) and one where they didn't even know what the fuck or where the fuck they were dropping it on(nagasaki)
The second bomb was actually dropped because the plane carrying it was getting short on fuel and they didn't know where excactly they were because it was really cloudy and foggy...
And wich is worse? Dieing in combat, probably painfull enough, or getting burnt of hair, skin, eyes, ears, hands, nose, and so on?
Or surviving, maybe getting your clothes burnt up in a second and melting on your skin, blah blah, then after a while you loose your apetite, you start loosing hair, maybe your teeth loosens, you start getting bruises around your body, coughing vometing blood and eventually dieng a slow and extremely painfull death and not even knowing what's ahppened to you?

I dunno, I suppose that the patriots around here won't even think it over, just kinda oversee it, but the truth is that whatever the fuck dropping the a-bombs was a bigger crime against humanity and act of terrorism(note that I'm using those patriotic bullshit expressions the us leaders have made into a clichê) as anything ever happened to the US-of-A...

The US planners in both the European and Pacific "theatres" were
quite aware that bombing cities was terrorism. They figured that
what they were engaging in could be justified as moral triage or
some such rationalization. Such power never existed before, and
there was no instruction manual- well, there was a body of precedent
consisting of treaties, war rules, religious belief, etc., but at the time
it may have appeared that it was all up in the air and subject to
selective interpretation. (Like the way Bushido was selectively
interpreted.)

Sidenote: would people please stop harping about "sneak attack".
The Declaration was delayed by incompetence. Pearl Harbor would
have had hours of warning if not for that. This assumes that Washington
would have processed the message in a timely fashion and issued
an alert immediately. It appears the Japanese wanted to have legal
cake and eat it too by timing the attack so close to formal declaration
that there would still be an element of surprise.
"We declare war... "...... boom.
It would be stupid to declare a war if your shit wasn't ready to go.
It's called choosing the time and place.

[Nicolai]

What would you do if someone killed thousands of Norwegians?

I don't know about you, but I'd just try to pull the same trick as the Japs (tricking the mooks into thinking that they'll lose their honor (which'd be rather hard since we don't really have that whole "honor" thing going over here, but, hey, I suppose that it'd be worth a shot) if they allow the enemy to rape their women and children without as much as a cry of protest!). Or wait, maybe I'd just use plan B.

1. Burn down all the major cities (I'm not going to allow those BASTARDS to waltz around in my precious, precious cities).
2. Kill all the children (wouldn't want those pesky kids to betray us and join the enemy's war machine, would we?).
3. Move Oljefondet (tm) to my private bank account (why not? ).
4. Move to Sweden.

Ooops, I know, surrender real damn quick.

That's why you're not Norwegian, you're too much of a pussy.

How many Norwegians have died to set America free?

I can't say that I counted them.

I bet your parents or grandparents where happy when the occupation was over.

Probably.

I'm sure no Norwegian sat around saying, "God, I just love having Nazis around."

Well, we had a quite a few of those chaps, so I'm going to have to kick you right in the fucking noggins again, my good sir.

One more thing, isn't escalation the normal course of events when one human commits an atrocity against another?

.
No.

If the U.S. is so bad, why did we rebuild Germany and Japan?

Two words: sick porn.

Why wouldn't we just move in and occupy all the countries that we freed(like the Soviet Union)?

Eh, I'm not an ant, that would have been way too much work.

[SNorth]

Kahgan, I hate to criticize you, but the reason the second bomb wasn't dropped on it's primary target was because they would have no footage of the explosion. They knew by instruments where they were but there wouldn't be a complete photographic record if they dropped it through the clouds. Nagasaki was the secondary target and they didn't drop the bomb throught the clouds there. The skies were clear.

Here's something else for you to chew on: Do you seriously think Germany or Japan would have hesitated to use nukes if they had them? Please consider your reply carefully.

And I agree, the winner always gets to write history, but that doesn't mean that the truth doesn't get told.

If you want to hear about some dirty deals, ask anyone from Poland sometime about what Stalin did to Warsaw. If you can't find anyone ask me.

[Kahgan]

Kahgan, I hate to criticize you, but the reason the second bomb wasn't dropped on it's primary target was because they would have no footage of the explosion. They knew by instruments where they were but there wouldn't be a complete photographic record if they dropped it through the clouds. Nagasaki was the secondary target and they didn't drop the bomb throught the clouds there. The skies were clear.

Yes you're right, I remembered falsly, sorry for that...

Here's something else for you to chew on: Do you seriously think Germany or Japan would have hesitated to use nukes if they had them? Please consider your reply carefully.

If I was twice as big as you and beat you up so hard that you had to go to the hospital because you poked me with a stick, would that make it right of you to do the same with me, if it were oposite?

And I agree, the winner always gets to write history, but that doesn't mean that the truth doesn't get told.

What if Germany and japan won the war? Think about it, three major things could have given them victory:
1. Germany not invading Soviet
2. Germany stopping at the western edge of Europe(i.e. not trying to invade England and well, stop the war, after all by that time they were winning)
3. Japan not declearing war on USA

Suppose that happened and Germany was now a huge uberstate like the US is, what would the history be like hten? what wouldbe considered right?

If you want to hear about some dirty deals, ask anyone from Poland sometime about what Stalin did to Warsaw. If you can't find anyone ask me.

By all means, tell me, I like history, it's interesting. But I've never said that Stalin was a better man than anyone else, nor that the USSR were a better state than any else... Stalin and the soviets just invaded teir part of Europe in a more brutal and primitive way than the US, the US manipulated with giving helps and beeing do-gooders when it was just for their own damn good, and it worked! I mean, open your eyes, who has the most influence in Europe by now? USa or Russia?...

Again I apolgize if I may have offended you Snorth, it's not my intention at the very least

[Wolfman Walt]

Just for reference Kaghan, If Germany had not invaded the soviet union, the Soviet Union would have invaded Germany. Really, the situation was just a "Either or" deal with who was about to attack first. Stalin was eager to take Germany and Hitler was just as eager to return the favor. The more interesting thing would have been if Hitler chose not to invade France which was in a pact with Britian thus giving Britian no reason to TRUELY attack....I think they may have had a pact with Poland too, but I'm not so sure about that. Anyways, point being, I think it'd have been interesting to see Germany + Italy going against Russia with Japan on the eastern side.

[Kahgan]

Well, the nazis were kinda winning in Russia too. Untill Stalingrad, they became exhausted after a while...Though a Soviet attack may have turned out opposite, the germans would ahve been (partly) on home fields, and millitary suppply would have been easier, not to mention they wouldn't have had the problem with the cold...But you are right, the soviets would probably have invaded if the gewrmans didn't....

[SNorth]

Nicolai, oh Nicolai, you are guilty of either not reading a whole thread or of being a complete ass---Which one is it? Maybe a little of both. I apologized to Corvwyn for the 'surrender damn quick,' remark. I believe the Norwegians did the best they could. What's the point of your whole post, really, not even one answer you gave could be construed as serious or even backed-up with explanations. Then, you resort to trying to offend me by calling me a 'pussy'---I mean, really. This would only mean something if you could say it to my face and not get your head separated from your shoulders. Why don't you start over and give some serious answers to what we are discussing here? It's not too late if you are 'man' enough to give serious answers instead of half-assed insults.

[Nicolai]

Nicolai, oh Nicolai,

you are guilty of either not reading a whole thread or of being a complete ass---Which one is it?

Well, I read the whole thread, so I suppose that I'm going to have to pick alternative B.

Maybe a little of both.

Surely you jest, my good sir?

I apologized to Corvwyn for the 'surrender damn quick,' remark.

I rest my case, your honor.

I believe the Norwegians did the best they could.

Well, you're wrong. DEAD WRONG.

What's the point of your whole post

What's the point of your post? eh? eh? EH?

, really,

not even one answer you gave could be construed as serious or even backed-up with explanations.

Oh my.

Then, you resort to trying to offend me by calling me a 'pussy'

Too tough to care, eh?

---

,,,

I mean, really.

¬_¬

This would only mean something if you could say it to my face and not get your head separated from your shoulders.

So.. What you're saying is that you'd "totally" "kick" "my" "ass" if I had told you that you were a pussy OUTSIDE THE INTERNET? Gosh!

Why don't you start over

I'm THERE!

and give some serious answers

I'm afraid that I can't do that, sir.

to what we are discussing here?

WHOA! Turns out that I walked STRAIGHT into a DISCUSSION! who'da thunk?!

It's not too late if

Or maybe it is?

you are 'man' enough

to give serious answers instead of half-assed insults.

[SNorth]

Nicolai, oh Nicolai,

Now, you are getting into the spirit of things!

you are guilty of either not reading a whole thread or of being a complete ass---Which one is it?

Well, I read the whole thread, so I suppose that I'm going to have to pick alternative B.

Maybe a little of both.

Surely you jest, my good sir?

Indeed, I do. If I myself wasn't an ass, I would have offered a third option.

I apologized to Corvwyn for the 'surrender damn quick,' remark.

I rest my case, your honor.

I don't understand this remark.

I believe the Norwegians did the best they could.

Well, you're wrong. DEAD WRONG.

Everything I ever read stated that they fought well. Tell us how I'm wrong. I'm interested in what you have to say.

What's the point of your whole post

What's the point of your post? eh? eh? EH?

Point? Who has a point? And I asked you first!

, really,

?

not even one answer you gave could be construed as serious or even backed-up with explanations.

Oh my.

Well? It's true. And quit the crying stuff. I won't feel bad about this...You can't make me.

Then, you resort to trying to offend me by calling me a 'pussy'

Too tough to care, eh?

I have the strength as of ten because my heart is pure.

---

,,,

I mean, really.

¬_¬

This would only mean something if you could say it to my face and not get your head separated from your shoulders.

So.. What you're saying is that you'd "totally" "kick" "my" "ass" if I had told you that you were a pussy OUTSIDE THE INTERNET? Gosh!

No, get it straight, you were the one who resorted to calling names. I merely, in effect, stated that calling someone a 'pussy' on the internet is easy. It is unfortunate because I sense that you might be a good guy.

Why don't you start over

I'm THERE!

Cool, so what do you want to discuss?

and give some serious answers

I'm afraid that I can't do that, sir.

I'll remember that, and I'll try to reply in kind. Thanks for your honesty.

to what we are discussing here?

WHOA! Turns out that I walked STRAIGHT into a DISCUSSION! who'da thunk?!

Ah, but did you have fun?

It's not too late if

Or maybe it is?

If you say so...

[Kahgan]

harr harr harr

hnf, and this what that was such of a good discussion, urgh....

[Nicolai]

What the hell, you suck at quoting.

Try again.

[SNorth]

Sorry about my piss-poor quoting. How's this?

Now, you are getting into the spirit of things!

Well, I read the whole thread, so I suppose that I'm going to have to pick alternative B.

Surely you jest, my good sir?

Indeed, I do. If I myself wasn't an ass, I would have offered a third option.

I rest my case, your honor.

I don't understand this remark.

Well, you're wrong. DEAD WRONG.

Everything I ever read stated that they fought well. Tell us how I'm wrong. I'm interested in what you have to say.

What's the point of your post? eh? eh? EH?

Point? Who has a point? And I asked you first!

?

Oh my.

Well? It's true. And quit the crying stuff. I won't feel bad about this...You can't make me.

Too tough to care, eh?

I have the strength as of ten because my heart is pure.

So.. What you're saying is that you'd "totally" "kick" "my" "ass" if I had told you that you were a pussy OUTSIDE THE INTERNET? Gosh!

No, get it straight, you were the one who resorted to calling names. I merely, in effect, stated that calling someone a 'pussy' on the internet is easy. It is unfortunate because I sense that you might be a good guy.

I'm THERE!

Cool, so what do you want to discuss?

I'm afraid that I can't do that, sir.

I'll remember that, and I'll try to reply in kind. Thanks for your honesty.

WHOA! Turns out that I walked STRAIGHT into a DISCUSSION! who'da thunk?!

Ah, but did you have fun?

Or maybe it is?

If you say so...

[Blargh]

[quote="Nicolai]

Try it AGAIN, Sam. Olol.

[Kahgan]

shit that get back to spa..discussing!

[Redeye]

shit that get back to spa..discussing!

Yes, let's discuss spas.

I went to this one once- it was an extended weekend thing, like
4&1/2 days. No sugar, no fat, no extra salt, no caffeine- except
for lying for 45 minutes a day in coffee grounds.
We made meals by harvesting from the meticulously maintained
gardens and orchard. Well, a mini orchard with different types of
soil for different types of trees and bushes. This one woman
kept complaining that eating so many tomatos was bad because her macrobiotic diet couldn't include so many nightshades.
We had morning calisthenics- you could choose low impact, medium
impact "jazzercise" crap, or Prussian- for the Real People.
Then there was a day of various activities- yoga, meditation, tai chi,
book discussion, cycling, volleyball, swimming, etc.
Then we would get massages- if you got to that area first you could pick your masseuse. Oh Yeah! I picked the one with the biggest tits so I
could feel them bouncing all over my back while she worked on me.
At night, there was no TV, but there was a cyber-parlour.
At least there wasn't any fucking bingo. There was a gym, too, but
I didn't bother with that.
I can't really remember much else.
Hey, it was paid for by the company, so what the hell.

[Kahgan]

I've never been to one cos I've never needed to....
the key to avoiding fat is easier than anything:
a) be active every day, and I don't mean like walking to mcdonalds, I mean physical work for example, walking in mountains...walking a 30 min. strole on a hill is just as good as jogging for an hour...
b) don't eat junkfood, at least not often... what you need is meat(real meat, sheep, pig, chicken, cow, etc, grinded meat is not the same cos they put lots of strange stuff in it) replace the meat with fish very often, or even better eat meat five times a week and have meat in the weekend, vegetables, wich gets you minerals and stuff(I really don't know I just know you need it)
Fill up(potatoes, rice, pasta, etc. basicly kalories, but not bad kalories...or sumtihn like that)
Fruit(basicly the same as vegetables, but usually tastes better, eat lots of fruit)
c) avoid conservative-stuff when you read on the back of food packages it stand for example natriumilocosadoiuminensis-lucasartonesius = E-273
stuff like that is just to conserv the food for a couple of days longer and no point at all....
d) avoid sugar, not like nevah eat teh sugah, but don't eat so much, and don't eat sweets, cos there's so much of the E's and other stuff that you dunno what is in....
e)eat mostly four-five meals a day: breakfast(egg+bread or two,milk) lunch(bread+cheese,milk)If your working hard take two lunch's(bread+cheese+milk)dinner(meat or fish(fish is better health-wise), vegetables, fill-up)supper-bread+egg, stuff like that....

all in all, if you just keep those "rules" somewhere in mind you'll be fine, it's no biggy, I've never had any program for food or stuff but the main thing is to keep active, I work 8 hours a day, physical work mind you, I'm not a contorist, I'm a carpenter aprentice, so I do alot of physical work every day...
hell, I must sound like a health freak or something, well, I'm not so shut the fuck up...

[Nicolai]

Sorry about my piss-poor quoting. How's this?

I suppose that it'll have to do..

Now, you are getting into the spirit of things!

Well, I read the whole thread, so I suppose that I'm going to have to pick alternative B.

Surely you jest, my good sir?

Indeed, I do. If I myself wasn't an ass, I would have offered a third option.

I'm afraid that I'm going to have to set the dogs on you, merry old chap. You've forced my hand.

I rest my case, your honor.

I don't understand this remark.

Well, allow me to have a go at simplyfying it a notch.
I rest my case, your honor.

Well, you're wrong. DEAD WRONG.

Everything I ever read stated that they fought well.

Well, those pesky nazis rolled straight over us, the resistance movement didn't really give them too much of a fight, they were just hiding radios and wearing pins... Okay, so we sank Blücher, but it had it coming anyway, so it didn't count.

Tell us how I'm wrong.

Why?

I'm interested in what you have to say.

So am I.

What's the point of your post? eh? eh? EH?

Point? Who has a point? And I asked you first!

I'll poke you with the pointy point of my poker if you don't DROP DEAD RIGHT NOW.

?

Oh my.

Well? It's true. And quit the crying stuff. I won't feel bad about this...You can't make me.

Oh, okay..

Too tough to care, eh?

I have the strength as of ten because my heart is pure.

Well, I've got balls of brass, so you're shit out of luck, kiddo.

So.. What you're saying is that you'd "totally" "kick" "my" "ass" if I had told you that you were a pussy OUTSIDE THE INTERNET? Gosh!

No, get it straight, you were the one who resorted to calling names. I merely, in effect, stated that calling someone a 'pussy' on the internet is easy. It is unfortunate because I sense that you might be a good guy.

Oh, carry on then.

I'm THERE!

Cool, so what do you want to discuss?

My fist's rendezvous with your FACE.

I'm afraid that I can't do that, sir.

I'll remember that, and I'll try to reply in kind. Thanks for your honesty.

¬_¬

WHOA! Turns out that I walked STRAIGHT into a DISCUSSION! who'da thunk?!

Ah, but did you have fun?

No, you ruined it all with your atrocious quoting.

Or maybe it is?

If you say so...

:COMMENT:

[Redeye]

I've never been to one cos I've never needed to....
the key to avoiding fat is easier than anything:
[middle part here I deleted- Redeye]
hell, I must sound like a health freak or something, well, I'm not so shut the fuck up...

I was just being funny, I made up the whole thing about the spa.
I've never been to one.
To me the big key is to not drink so much beer!
I mean, look at Germany!
(and they will say its just because of the sausages)

As for health freakage, I pretty much do veggies and fruit with
meat when it is the Serious Meat, or if it is just right for a recipe.
So for me, beer and not enough exercise mean GUT.
I prefer to call it my "beer baby".