Duck and Cover

VasikkA wrote:And the intelligent radscorpion in Broken Hills, the one who played chess. It just amazes me why this stuff was included. Who had the main responsibility in BIS of deciding these things after Mr. Cain left?

According to Chris Sawyer from talking to him on the phone, nobody was in charge. Everyone stuffed their own shit into the game, whether it made sense or not, whether it fit or not. It's quite ovbious that's what happened.

At this point, I'm wondering if they actually had a design doc or not.

I suppose the burning question is what did Chris think of the poodle launcher as a secret weapon?

Hmmm. How about: it wasn't quite as good as the walking door, which was the bestest thing ever!

pax,
-Chris

The Door of Death!

*cue cheesy horror muzak*

Is it any wonder why people would rather listen to Tim?

Actually, I don't know. I thought Fallout 2 was a far better game.

Rob_Merritt wrote: Actually, I don't know. I thought Fallout 2 was a far better game.

Die.

Oh, by the way: Hi Tim! Hi Chris! Big fan of your works (maybe not FO2 as much as FO, but a fan nonetheless. Oh, I also enjoyed Arcanum quite a bit.).

And my "on-topic" contribution: Yeah...See, I was reading the deisgn doc in the FOB, and this was my reaction:

WHAT? Then:

They can't be serious!

Now, please understand, I'd enjoy blowing that place to kingdom come as much as the next guy, but...I guess Saint sums it up with his "talking raccoons with Elf names" bit.

Rosh wrote:According to Chris Sawyer from talking to him on the phone, nobody was in charge. Everyone stuffed their own shit into the game, whether it made sense or not, whether it fit or not. It's quite ovbious that's what happened.

That would explain the disjointed feeling that FO2 has compared to FO, which was more homogenous w/o stifling the unique flavor of each location.

OTB

Rob_Merritt wrote:Actually, I don't know. I thought Fallout 2 was a far better game.

Some people like eating feces too.

Scratch that, I REALLY love the admins here at DAC.

Seems as though it is rather unhealthy to have an unpopular opinion on this board. This will not deter me from expressing mine, regardless of the imperitive negative reaction.

I think Fallout 2 is superior to Fallout 1. I feel that its gameplay, while much the same, is expanded in comparison; I feel that the storyline is more coherant, and I like the expanded number of items. However, the thing that clinches Fallout 2 being a superior game for me is nothing more than the Crashed Whale random encounter.

Yes, that's right. I am a huge fan of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy series of books, radio shows, etc., and for me the singular addition of the pot of daisies (albeit that it was a pot of petunias in the book) beside the remains of the whale secures Fallout 2 as holding the superior position.

Discuss amongst yourselves.

-Battons down hatches, waiting for flames-

Well, good that you're an avid HHGTTG fan. That one was perhaps one of the better-executed easter eggs that fit in. Much like the Taardis and the sort. The eneric alien saucer spaceship in Fo1 was neat, because it did a joke about "they are out there", but the crashed fed shuttle in Fo2 was too much. It was corny.

Too bad there's a plethora of Monty Python, Star Trek, and numerous other references shat out into the game ad nauseum. That's one of the killers. The world isn't dark anymore, it's a damn slideshow of pop culture references.

More isn't better, particularly when the balance of the game is upset. Fo2 was far too easy and far too cheesy compared to Fo1. Of course, it would be hard to top The Master, but still...

A lot of the locations in Fo2 had no purpose whatsoever. Many felt like they were just time-wasters, because they were a bit disassociative to the setting/overall plot. A lot were incomplete, and lost the definite uniqueness about them.

I will admit, the one easter egg/reference I did like was the Hubologists. But only in part. True, there would be numerous quack cults and the sort, Heaven's Gate and Scrotumologists would unfortunately survive like cockroaches.

Lithorai wrote:I think Fallout 2 is superior to Fallout 1. I feel that its gameplay, while much the same, is expanded in comparison; I feel that the storyline is more coherant, and I like the expanded number of items. However, the thing that clinches Fallout 2 being a superior game for me is nothing more than the Crashed Whale random encounter.

It would have to be something inane like a random encounter, wouldn't? After all, saying something like "the storyline in Fallout 2 is more coherant" is just plain laughable. In fact, it's not even continuous with itself.

You want an example of why it's not coherant?

Matt of the BOS claims the Enclave has been trying to make California worse by dealing in drugs, slaves, and weapons to raiders/bad people for quite a while. There's only one place in the game to back that up, and that's with the Salvadores in New Reno. On the whole, everything in Fallout 2 is pretty much getting better, regardless of the whole enclave interference.

So basically, you have what Matt says and a side quest for the Salvadores to back up the Enclave had a master plan still in progress, yet nothing else backing this up. This is a prime example of the result of a bunch of different developer cells working on a game and not communicating because there are no other examples of this long term master plan.

Compare that to Fallout with Richard Grey's plan.

The Master's plan was seen in The Hub with the missing caravans AND the Children of the Cathedral, Necropolis with the Supermutant occupation at the water pump, Boneyards with the Followers of the Apocalypse, and so on. There were lots of things telling you about the Master's plan everywhere. His taint was well demonstrated in the area.

More coherant story in Fallout 2? Give me a break.

The storyline in Fallout 2 was epitome to a jumble of random modules for Neverwinter Nights combined together post-haste.

It didn't have much continuity in terms of the overall plot and it was only tied loosely together with the scripted encounters you had with the Enclave (Like meeting Frank Horrigan early in the game).

Speaking of that encounter, it pretty much destroyed any sense of mystery that the original Fallout had going for it. Fallout was a game of discovery and artifact, but its sequel was as if the world had already been mapped out and the scenario no longer a dark and brooding mystery.

It is therefore my opinion, and the would-be opinion of any person appreciative of a good story that Fallout 2 was insidiously deprived of any good story content. It had much potential, but they blew it.

I agree 100% with that. It is a good day to see a new boardmember who does not say that Fallout 2 is better than Fallout because it is bigger(cities that were there for no other reason than to make the game seem bigger), has more weapons(most were real world which did not fit the alternate future setting), or has their favorite pop culture reference in it(way too manny in fact. the games atmosphere was absolutly ruined by this alone not to mention the disjointed feeling of the plot). I am glad you are not like many who think that more is better.

Three words: Quality over quantity.

Lithorai wrote:Seems as though it is rather unhealthy to have an unpopular opinion on this board. This will not deter me from expressing mine, regardless of the imperitive negative reaction.

Or maybe you are posting your opinion because it will get a harsh reaction.
Troll.

I think Fallout 2 is superior to Fallout 1. I feel that its gameplay, while much the same, is expanded in comparison;

Yeah, one or two gameplay features make all the difference!
You played Fallout2 before you played Fallout, didn't you?

I feel that the storyline is more coherant,

However, it is near exactly the same as the plot in Fallout, and doesn't go near justifying the communities you encounter.
Casinos in New Reno. Why? No tourists, not enough money.
Gold mines in Redding. Why would anyone care about gold?

and I like the expanded number of items.

Of which, none really fit in with the setting, or are totally useless easter egg items.

However, the thing that clinches Fallout 2 being a superior game for me is nothing more than the Crashed Whale random encounter.

These sorts of easter eggs are in their thousands across the game. It seems to me that they have just thrown together a bunch of pop-culture references and called it a game.

You must be blind if you can't see the lack of quality there.

-Battons down hatches, waiting for flames-

Did I call you a troll yet?

Troll!

Deathy wrote:You played Fallout2 before you played Fallout, didn't you?

I played Fallout 2 before 1 as well, but i feel Fallout 1 is vastly superior to Fallout 2. Also true that the new items that was added was either ridicolously powerful weapons and armor, or sex dolls and ball gags.

Saint_Proverbius wrote:So basically, you have what Matt says and a side quest for the Salvadores to back up the Enclave had a master plan still in progress, yet nothing else backing this up.

Admitted it is rather vague, but what about Metzger at The Den? He was guarding chemicals for The Enclave in that church of his.

Rat Keeng wrote:Admitted it is rather vague, but what about Metzger at The Den? He was guarding chemicals for The Enclave in that church of his.

Lara says those chemicals come from Vault City and then go to New Reno. I've never seen anyone say those chemicals come from or go to the Enclave.

I think it is safe to say Fallout 1 is more atmospheric than Fallout 2. New Reno with it's flashy lights, whores and pimps standing in every corner might be atmospheric but it's not Fallout. Neither is the hi-tech bases in San Fran, intelligent deathclaws(and mole rats, radscorpions, sporeplants..), friendly super mutants in Broken Hills, over the top easter eggs, fill-up locations, bugs, uncompleted quests and so many other things. Falluot 2 is still a good game but these things partially ruin the essence that is Fallout.

San Fransisco bothered me greatly. I can think of only one reason to set up the merchants as they did, and that's good ol' fashioned Diablo hoarding. Not something i like to indulge in.

Saint_Proverbius wrote: Lara says those chemicals come from Vault City and then go to New Reno. I've never seen anyone say those chemicals come from or go to the Enclave.

There was a wee indication when you ask him about the transmissions Vic is working on, he mentions The Enclave and New Reno. I can't remember if there's any further mention of it, it's been a while since i've been there.

Rat Keeng wrote: I played Fallout 2 before 1 as well, but i feel Fallout 1 is vastly superior to Fallout 2. Also true that the new items that was added was either ridicolously powerful weapons and armor, or sex dolls and ball gags.

I played FO2 first as well.

Generally, I have seen that the people who think FO2 was the best, played it before Fallout.

Same thing goes with FOT, in a couple of cases too.