Dark Knight Review Pending (Major SPOILERS)

Caleb · Post by **Caleb** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:49 pm

they never said he was dead...just perhaps coma/whatever

also for shakiness...the first time i remember being pissed off about it in a movie was in gladiator during the opening scene..maybe saving private ryan...couldn't tell what the fuck was going on.

S4ur0n27 · Post by **S4ur0n27** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:59 pm

I dunno, Two-Face wasn't really exciting, as a vilain(the make-up was retarded).

I'm just surprised they killed him : they didn't make any hint as to what vilain will be in the next movie? Also pretty much every characters are dead, so the only elements of continuity that could be present in the third movie would be Batman and Alfred...

All in all, awesome movie.

Post by **Dogmeatlives** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:10 am

S4ur0n27 wrote:I dunno, Two-Face wasn't really exciting, as a vilain(the make-up was retarded).

I'm just surprised they killed him : they didn't make any hint as to what vilain will be in the next movie? Also pretty much every characters are dead, so the only elements of continuity that could be present in the third movie would be Batman and Alfred...

All in all, awesome movie.

ok so first off, major fucking spoiler jackoff! Secondly, and this here is a major SPOILER!!!!!!! as well. Do not read further and ruin movie for yourself!!!!!

I have a feeling that the joker was so fucking good, they were gonna try putting him in the next movie as the main villian, or at least the side-villian. I really loved his portrayal of the joker and could have watched three more movies with him as the villian honestly.

Two face was a major disappointment. I didn't really buy the whole "I'm evil now" thing. I admire how they formed his character but I didn't really buy the turn completely.

As a pretty hardcore batfan myself, I have one big gripe about the whole thing, and its hard to blame anybody but myself. I feel like I knew too much about the movie going in. I kinda had to remind myself that this was just a Batman movie, and not some kind of Heath Ledger death poem.
I had also seen most of the preview footage that was released before the movie ever came out. I understand that the movie has to be promoted, but I would have preferred to be left in the dark about alot more.

There were some great scenes in which I already knew what was gonna happen. I really regret watching all the preview shit out there.

and Batman also shows up inexplicably way too often. I realize he is Batman, world's greatest detective, but lets be serious. My last gripe is the story. There were way too many characters and storylines to follow IMO.

Oh and another gripe is that chick who played rachel. I didn't buy the fact that both men were fawning over her madly. She seemed pretty flat and uninteresting the whole time. I definitely would have preferred Katie Holmes.

But seriously, Heath Ledger was and is the shit!

Post by **Dogmeatlives** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:26 am

Smiley wrote:Well in Hancock it was bouncing, not around corners or anything, but just so obviously handheld...

In the first Batman, it was truly horrible during all the fightscenes, the one in the temple being the best/worst example, where he was dodging in and out between the other students. I don't get sick by playing games, being in cars/busses airplanes, but the first time I ever got motionsickness, was during that scene.

And almost all movies since then have had the same kind of shit camera-work... (as well as a decent few before that..)

Yeah, I had an issue with it as well. I can tell you it is somewhat improved, but not really much. During the fight scenes its mostly just bodies colliding, fuzziness, batman's ears, 'bows being thrown, bad guy screams, the end. I have a feeling its because the batman costume looks pretty goofy in a RL fight scene.

An excellent fight scene should be kept clear and all the action should be recognizeable. This movie has a bit of a problem with that, or maybe Jackie Chan just spoils me, but usually that shaky-camwork is used to disguise some stupidity. In Transformers, it was the shortening CGI budget.

In this film I have a feeling it was Batman's costume, mostly his cape. It's hard to make a guy look cool while fighting in a cape, unless you have some great fight coordinators who spend alot of time with the actors. Me thinks Nolan was more concerned with the story. Oh, and the vehicle scenes were pretty slick. I enjoyed that bike mucho.

Hollywood has gotten pretty lazy with the action though. I think Rambo was the last movie where I could really soak in the violence, before that probably The Protector.

Casino Royale's fights were great, namely the first one in black & white, which is pretty classic IMO. Probably the only 007 scene I clearly remember grinning throughout. The Bourne movies, I think got the blurriness down pretty well. The director utilized it to create frenzied moments, but there was always the gratification of violence afterwards.

But really though, my favorite fight scene camera work has the least amount of work to it. Give me maybe three different angles, and wow me with that. Steven Seagal's Hard To Kill did this pretty well. I remember one scene where the camera was pretty much in one or two spots as he threw bad guys into and through various objects, only changing angles to give a great shot of a guy's head being put through glass or a knife being shoved into some dude's hand. That's gratifying to me.

I can definitely enjoy and appreciate great drama, but god I really crave great action. When a movie makes me exclaim "oohs" and "ouches" then I'm hooked.

Wolfman Walt · Post by **Wolfman Walt** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:22 am

Pros -
* Heath Ledger was great, as noted.
* Christian Bale was, again, more than acceptable as Batman
* Movie was more akin to the Frank Miller versions of Batman. I like that. The plot was also pretty good.
* A scene where batman actually investigates shit. Go figure.
* The camera work was much better this time. So were the fight scenes, though as noted, still not super great. I liked Hellboy II's fights better.

Cons -
* That stupid scene where Batman catches Rachel and they fall like a kajillion stories in a car and she's like "Lets never do that again" and he's like "I have a bat bonerang for you" and then they both walk away as if nothing happened, and I don't care how awesome batman's suit is, falling from a penthouse of a super tall building kills normal people even if they have kevlar suits and despite how awesomely fit Bruce Wayne is, he's just another guy.
* Two Face. Not the character. The plot involving him. I didn't even mind the set up, I just wished it remained a set up. The way the movie was, it felt like they did a Venom repeat in trying to fit too many villians into the same movie. If it was just all Joker in terms of villianary and they ended Two-Faces bit with him disapearing at the hospital, it'd have been a much better movie in my opinion.
* There was some sloppy editing in some parts of the movie where it really detracted from an otherwise perfectly polished product. One that sticks in my mind is near the beginning of the movie where Bruce is talking to Alfred and the camera cuts to Alfred and back to Bruce who is still talking, but his lips aren't moving as he buttons his shirt.
* While I understand Lucius Fox did alot of work on Batman's batwing (Batmobile in the animated series), it seems like he was inventing all of Batman's gadgets and Bruce was helpless without him, where as in the comics, Batman thought up most of his own gear.
* Jesus christ was it long.

Misc.
* I heard a rumor that the next villian is the Penguin or the Riddler, probably both. I'd have prefered Clayface, Killer Croc, or the Mad Hatter. Clayface especially if they get Ron Perlman to play/voice him as he did in the animated series.

Post by **Dogmeatlives** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:46 am

I really loved this little shot right here...

cazsim83 · Post by **cazsim83** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:29 am

Dogmeatlives wrote:I definitely would have preferred Katie Holmes.

@ Walt - I really really hope they don't do the penguin. I've never seen a sequence with the Penguin that I truly enjoyed, movies, comics, whatever.

Clayface or Hatter would be cool, but the first two I thought that could actually make good villains would be Riddler or Poison Ivy or Mr Freeze (and oh god not Arnold or Uma) - side villains could be that guy that cuts himself after he kills someone, or Amygdala (spl?) - they would make great minor villains IMO

quick edit - John Kerry would make a great Clayface because you wouldn't need makeup or effects you could just manipulate the botox and it would look SICK

Edward_R_Murrow · Post by **Edward_R_Murrow** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:55 am

* I heard a rumor that the next villian is the Penguin or the Riddler

I kind of wanted Mr. Freeze...but that's never going to fly.

Wolfman Walt · Post by **Wolfman Walt** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:37 am

cazsim83 wrote:they would make great minor villains IMO

If we're going for minor Batman villians, I'd like to see the Time King. Sure, he's more of a Green Arrow villian, but he was another favorite from the animated series and I thought he was badass. A guy that can calculate time so precisely that he knows how long it takes for batman to land a punch and thus this somehow gives him ability to dodge and counter them? Sign me up.

Post by **Dogmeatlives** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:41 am

I'm hoping for Bane. Could throw in some social commentary about steroids or something. Schwarzenegger in his prime would have been great. I don't know who they would cast now. Good luck finding a muscle-head with Arnold's charisma, because that's what they would need to make Bane a main baddy in a franchise this popular.

Probably won't happen but that would be great

.

POOPERSCOOPER · Post by **POOPERSCOOPER** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:41 am

Dogmeatlives wrote:I really loved this little shot right here...

I like this scene but who is driving? Makes me wonder if hes putting his arm across to steer but hes in the back seat. Pretty crazy stuff alright.

Also SPOILER

I don't think two face is dead, he just fell and went unconscience then they want everyone to think hes dead instead of soiling his good name. I want the joker for the third film though, why did ledger have to die?

Wolfman Walt · Post by **Wolfman Walt** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:58 am

SPOILERS

I initially thought Two-Face was dead, but that'd pretty much make the whole movie irrelevant with batman's character. The whole movie is partially about how Batman is unwilling to kill, even accidently. So I'm with Pooper, Dent is just out of it and they lock him up in Arkham. They say he's dead from the Hospital explosion and Batman murdered all the criminals/crooked cops to take the wrap so Dent, a hero for Gotham, still remains a shining white knight. You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villian. Dent is doing both.

Now that I think about it. Dent wasn't really Two Face as much as just really pissed off. Dent, in the comics, suffers from multiple personality disorder which is brought about by years of child abuse from his father. Infact, there was a great story line where the Rogue's gallery captures Batman and puts him to trial with Two-Face as the prosecutor. Batman being Batman and having a great sense of humor calls on Dent to be his defender, producing some great dialogue as Two-Face/Dent argues with himself.

Post by **Dogmeatlives** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:58 am

yeah it really sucks he had to overdose. He definitely turned the Joker concept on its head. They should just give him an oscar. Who cares really?

SPOILERS

and I don't really care whether two-face is dead anyway, although to see him through most of the movie as Harvey and then suddenly he has his own little revenge mini-movie out of nowhere was kinda odd so maybe it would be pretty cool if he started off as two-face. I can't imagine how they would explain him alive, though.

Tommy Lee Jones was a much better Two-face. Tommy Lee Jones is usually a much better anything.

Post by **Dogmeatlives** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:09 am

Wolfman Walt wrote: the Rogue's gallery captures Batman and puts him to trial with Two-Face as the prosecutor. Batman being Batman and have a great sense of humor calls on Dent to be his defender, producing some great dialogue as Two-Face/Dent argues with himself.

I love comic books..

S4ur0n27 · Post by **S4ur0n27** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:11 am

Nobody else thought Two-Face's make-up was way too much? It looks good in still shots, but whenever it's animated it feels... fake? Like Braindead-fake?

Edit - The peeling knife thing was hilarious.

MadBill · Post by **MadBill** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:24 am

Thats what that was!? Guh I fucking knew I missed something.

Post by **Dogmeatlives** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:29 am

S4ur0n27 wrote:Nobody else thought Two-Face's make-up was way too much? It looks good in still shots, but whenever it's animated it feels... fake? Like Braindead-fake?

Edit - The peeling knife thing was hilarious.

yeah, actually the two-face makeup was unnecessarily extreme, and what peeling knife thing?

spacemoose · Post by **spacemoose** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:57 am

I'm not going to see it because its a movie that takes itself way too seriously for being based on a two bit comic. two bit as in the characters are one dimensional

that and I can't think of a way to enrage the audience besides yelling at batman about how sexy he is and that could basically work with any movie so

Smiley · Post by **Smiley** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:27 am

Gonna mark this as a spoiler thread... I wish someone had done it before me.

Blargh · Post by **Blargh** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:11 pm

Pencil ? Gone !

Ahahaha. Brilliant.