Duck and Cover

now that i played that patch thing that (sorry i frogert your name!) put out, i realized how much i hated the real named guns. unless it was something like "tommy gun" rather than whatever-the-hell its real name is, like thompson m#.

id like to see a pump action shotgun in fo3.
yea, and change like the M4a1 to like M5 (whatever the m5 really is)
i swear, the army just keeps making up names for guns...:
*here Sir, i made this prototype gun, what should it be named?
--hmmmm.... M96325 sounds good to me.
*but that names already taken!
--TOO FRIGGIN BAD PRIVATE!!!! now go eat dog shit or soemthing!

yea... eventhough privates dont make guns...

Strapon2 wrote: i swear, the army just keeps making up names for guns...

Actually, the system's pretty easy to understand. Here it goes:

• M stands for "Model", which means that it is a class of item that has been tested and accepted for production as a standard item in the inventory. If you haven't yet standardized the item you add "X" in front of the "M" to denote that it's still experimental. (An older system used "T" for "Type" in place of "XM".)
• A (I can't remember what that stands for) is a series of standaradized changes. So if, for instance, someone takes an older rifle, adds a new feature to it that is then accepted as the new standard you add "A#" to the end.
• E stands for "Experimental" and represents one in a series of experimental changes. So while you're tinkering w/that old rifle you would add an "E#" to the end of the nomenclature.

So if you have a M4A3E8 Tank/Machinegun/Paperclip, you have the fourth standard model, with the 3rd series of standardized changes and the 8th series of experimental changes.

It's a simple as that.

Cheers,

OTB

great! thanks for the info, now i understand it all. so thats why the G11 had a G11e, cause it was an experemental one.

Strapon2 wrote:great! thanks for the info, now i understand it all. so thats why the G11 had a G11e, cause it was an experemental one.

I should have put a qualifier on my post: that info deal w/US nomenclature.

In the case of "G-11" the "G" stands for Gewehr (German: Rifle). I'm not sure what the "e" would stand for. The G-11 was never officially adopted by Germany due to the massive costs of reunification, so technically the whole affair was still experimental.

OTB

Of course, not all guns use that system. For example, the M1911A1 or the M2HB.

Doyle wrote:Of course, not all guns use that system. For example, the M1911A1 or the M2HB.

Both of those fall under older systems, which I alluded to.

The M1911A1 is a pistol that was adopted in 1911 and includes the first series of standardized changes.

The M2HB is a standardized model that includes a Heavy Barrel.

OTB

But why are these named differently when other weapons from a similar time frame do fit the naming convention you described?

Saint_Proverbius wrote:

Doyle wrote:The M16 was chosen for a couple of reasons. One is that they wanted a rifle capable of fully automatic fire. The M14 is only capable of firing in three round bursts. The second is also that they wanted a rifle that used the NATO standard round, even though it's a crappier round than the .30-'06. (I think that's what the M14 used. I know it's what the Garand used.)

The M-16 is also better at long range than the M-14. That was one of the requirements for the weapon. The army noticed that aimed kills at long range were basically on the same order as those of cover fire, so they wanted something that was better at hitting targets that were far off.

.

Err... Wrong, wrong and wrong. Read here for full M16 enlightenment.

http://communities.prodigy.net/sportsrec/gz-556faq.html

And here for weapon history/trivia fans:

http://communities.prodigy.net/sportsrec/gz-556dw.html

Doyle wrote:But why are these named differently when other weapons from a similar time frame do fit the naming convention you described?

That's a good question, but one that I don't have an answer for. I'm going to try to find an answer since I'm intrigued by it. If I haven't posted in a couple of days, PM me.

A preliminary guess would be that after WWI/The Great War the US changed its nomenclature patterns. I'm guessing that because the M1911 was adopted before WWI, the Colt M1917 pistol (in .45 ACP) was adopted during WWI, and the M2 Heavy Machinegun was adopted in 1919, which would be after WWI, so the change probably occured right around that time, but it may also be a case of something like different procurement boards dealing w/different type of weapons or some of bureaucratic issue.

OTB

At least that makes more sense the change in the British system! I never did get the full low down on when and why that changed!!

Viktor wrote:At least that makes more sense the change in the British system! I never did get the full low down on when and why that changed!!

It's sad that there are so many reference manuals out there on these subjects, yet really all they are is a rehash of previous works and include the same, tired, old information. Capitalist scholarship at its finest...

"Oh look Mr. Buystoomanybooks, here is a new book w/more pretty pictures and a colorful, new dust jacket. That will be $49.99, please. (Nevermind that you've already bought six books w/the identical information in it.)"

Look at the discrepancies that you'll find in a lot of references about Rate of Fire. The reason is usually that two authors draw on difference tests and that the criteria for those tests were different. Of course, the author doesn't have the decency to let you in on exactly what what. That is, if they even knew themselves in the first place...

OTB

Yeah! Let's make Jane's Infantry Weapons our Bible, make Ian V. Hogg a saint and smite all heretics that dare mis-quote him!!

Viktor wrote:Yeah! Let's make Jane's Infantry Weapons our Bible, make Ian V. Hogg a saint and smite all heretics that dare mis-quote him!!

...and then the Great Ecumenical Council on Small Arms did vote on the matter of the beatification of John Weeks, his works on the subject of weapons being both voluminous and widely known, with the tally being 50 votes of "aye" and 49 of "nay" with 1 abstention. There followed a great weeping and gnashing of teeth...

OTB

ROFLMAO!!!

I actually had a whole "Canticle for Weeks" daydream where Brother Viktor was being tried for heresy after unearthing the "real field trial report for the L85A2" which spake badly of the Holy works of Saint Heckler and Saint Koch in their efforts to exorcise the Demons of Political Expedience that beset the Blessed Bullpup of Albion.

Officier: "What thinkst thou, Private, of thine rifle now it hast hath received its Divine Re-Fit?"

Private: "Its parts still falleth assunder and it jammeth at moments of direst need, Sir!"

Officer: "Hast the fettling of the Venerable Heckler and Koch not made thine weapon a tool to smite thy foes with?"

Private: "Only if I basheth them about the head with it, Sir! Please arm us with such weapons that worketh in battle, such as those made by the Holy Colt!"

Officer: "Foul unbeliever! Get ye to the mess hall and there peeleth ye spuds until Evensong!"

In the case of "G-11" the "G" stands for Gewehr (German: Rifle).

oops, i totally missed the G part of that. i got it now