Duck and Cover

Valdis wrote:My lie? I never said I DID anything, I just joined a forum. I got involved in one in 2001.

Ah, yes. You switched forums in 1998, but then joined a Fallout forum in 1999. Read that again and do some elementary math to figure out where that doesn't quite match up. This is A.D., not B.C.

I also must point out the mincing of your words, and that by the definition of joining a forum (or to switch to another one a year earlier), you participate.

Another backpedal?

And I did change names many times.
One of my names was J.K.

That you missed many of my posts means you either were blind when you were reading the DAC forums, or you're lying again. That is, if you were there daily as you claim. Come on, the bullshit is getting deep.

Anyway, maybe I should stop posting about Fallout at all since none of my ideas seem to be good.

Well, for starters, how about putting some thought behind them? Figure out where the idea does and doesn't fit into the setting. Being a shopkeeper when you're supposed to be the one saving the post-nuclear world is rather absurd.

Does it really matter who joined first?

Not really.

I know what I did.

I went to the site daily because I checked for updates. I rarely looked at the forums.
-----------------
I regret starting this whole damned thing.

yeah, I'll think more about my posting from now on.

Valdis wrote:Does it really matter who joined first?

Not really.

Irrelevent, yes. But when it comes to who posted more and better ideas, as per your original reply to me, you've done nothing to really substantiate anything. In face, you've just been waffling around for an entire page so far.

I know what I did.

READ: "I switched forums in early 1998. Joined a Fallout forum in 1999."

DO SOME SIMPLE MATH.

Then shut down your browser.

I went to the site daily because I checked for updates. I rarely looked at the forums.

Ah, so now your point about being at Fallout2.net in context of submitted ideas is now null and void.

That begs the question of...why did you post about it in the first place?

this is wild. lol.
whose winning?

Why not just acknowledge that you have different opinions. I don't think either Valdis or anyone else who thinks jobs would be a fun idea is talking about sitting behind a counter all day to collect an houry wage. If implimented well, jobs could add more depth to the game. In both the Fallouts you can join up with caravans to protect the cargo to the destination. I would call that a job. If you could somehow own your own business you could come by every few weeks and "sort out" any problems that may occur and collect a nice handful of bottle caps. Nobody is talking about your character sitting in a cubicle all day.

In fallout 2 you could become a Calif. Ranger, yet it doesn't really do anything for you. What if you could advance in their ranks and plot out attacks on slavers or go on runs yourself. Everyone is thinking in past conventions, and Fallout 3 is going to bring some new ideas to the table. Not every idea about what they'd like Fallout 3 to be is perfect, nor does it have to be. I thought this forum was for introducing new mechanics and gameplay, so why not lower your guns and let it remain a matter of opinion, not name-calling?

Ezechial_Rage wrote:(snip a whole load)

Trying to obfuscate the issue by blurring in affiliations of the character they make throughout their journeys is rather well misplaced.

Okay...what part of saviour or bastard of the wasteland do you absolutely fail to understand? I think I put it quite well when I pointed out that the Chosen One and Vault Dweller are going to be more concerned about the purpose of the game, the main storyline.

The job/employment of what they talked about wouldn't fit into Fallout if it were "starting your own business". Missed that part, didn't you?

Then, if you really want to be picky about it, in your attempt to blur the issue, this was already done. With the BoS, mafia families (even though they really didn't fit in), the caravans, and others. So now this suggestion thread is redundent and a waste, according to your reasoning, because it's already been done.

/me golf claps.

In additon, to prove YOU = ASSHAT:

Ezechial_Rage wrote:Why not just acknowledge that you have different opinions. I don't think either Valdis or anyone else who thinks jobs would be a fun idea is talking about sitting behind a counter all day to collect an houry wage.

Valdis wrote:In the classic Fallout series(Fallout 1 and 2), you really didn't get to have a full time job.

And, you couldn't start your own buisness.

Maybe in Fallout 3 there should be some way to start a buisness or join one for life(or until you quit, retire or are fired).

What do you folks think?

Strapon2 wrote: maybe the game could start out with your charactor (posibly one beginning) as a store owner or employee, and then the plot would thicken after that. but too much jobs and occupational stuff would make fallout3 more of a.. well, survival in the civilized wastes than a cool active rpg

Meths wrote: If it ever happens (Fo3) i'd like to be able to become just anything. Why not to wipe some farmer out, take over his farm and make some profit from it. Why not to hire some mercs to do the dirty work for you if you're diplomatic char or why not to get regular jobs from paramilitary groups that you belong to.

...

It would be funny to do exacly what you want in Fo3 - think about Black&White. Why not to let Fo3 keep at least that level?

The more realistic game is the better.

...

Why? Possibility to become farmer, shopkeeper, gunsmith, caravan master or whatsoever would be kinda addition - it'd be only a possibility if smbd doesn't like it - he doesn't need to go that way, especially if there's any time limit.

If there'is not - the wasteland is yours

Was that an "Aw, shit, he's got me!" I just heard?

Rosh. Valdis wants to be a moderator. He actually campaigned for himself in the Lionheart forum. He tries to win an argument by underlining his superiority and experience in another, completely unrelated field, not unlike children boasting over how far they can piss to 'prove' they are right.

I know it's fun to see this guy in action, and I wonder what the kids looks like, sitting in his parent's living room with no friends to actually talk about his piss. You might even pity him.

Then, you might not.

BTW, I wonder how old he was in 1997.


To comment on the topic at hand :
There were jobs in Fallout. You could join a caravan. Then, you could see all quests as a job. Extended, daily jobs aren't fun. If you think that's fun, get a real one and see how you like it. Of course some jobs can be fun, but SIMULATING them is most surely tedious as hell. Not to mention unproductive. If you like to pretend you have a daily job in a game -meaning you'r sitting at your computer clicking and rejoicing in the fact that your character is doing something exciting, like neurotically flipping his fingers on his counter waiting for customers, you're fit for mind-numbing work like putting lids on cans in front of a conveyer belt.

Jobs weren't done in the mafia because the quests you got stopped at a point. Feel free to call me names, I'm not going to get personal about something on an internet forum. It's fine that you don't like the idea of a job, but I think it has some merit if done properly. You can pinpoint a phrase and say "gotcha" all you want but that doesn't really say anything at all. You're taking what people are saying too literally and trying to shove something back in my face when things don't contradict each other.

Of course there will still be a main storyline to Fallout and your job wouldn't be able to overshadow that. I'm thinking of jobs as little extra stuff you can do for a little while when you're in a particular town or you just have some time to blow. We're talking about a very small gameplay issue here which I don't see why you're getting so worked up about.

Gameplay issues is what it's all about, isn't it?

When you have 'time to blow' in a game, you're doing something wrong, or the game's bad.

A game is a MEANS of blowing your time.

Of course, if you mean your character has time to blow, and you can just skip ahead so called in-game 'work time', that's fine. But that was already in Fallout (I'm talking about 1...I take it the 'maffia' is in 2) to a certain extent and it hurts story credibility in most of the cases this idea could be applied to.

I was referring to in game character time MF. I guess we play the game differently. Before I beat a game or when there is a spot you don't have to progress the story, I like to explore, check out random encounters, and just laugh at all the humor that's in the game. Both the Fallout games are pretty non linear so, although there might be a main quest, you have time to spare to do other things. This is when a character could dabble in a job of sorts.

MF wrote:Rosh. Valdis wants to be a moderator. He actually campaigned for himself in the Lionheart forum. He tries to win an argument by underlining his superiority and experience in another, completely unrelated field, not unlike children boasting over how far they can piss to 'prove' they are right.

I know it's fun to see this guy in action, and I wonder what the kids looks like, sitting in his parent's living room with no friends to actually talk about his piss. You might even pity him.

Then, you might not.

BTW, I wonder how old he was in 1997.


To comment on the topic at hand :
There were jobs in Fallout. You could join a caravan. Then, you could see all quests as a job. Extended, daily jobs aren't fun. If you think that's fun, get a real one and see how you like it. Of course some jobs can be fun, but SIMULATING them is most surely tedious as hell. Not to mention unproductive. If you like to pretend you have a daily job in a game -meaning you'r sitting at your computer clicking and rejoicing in the fact that your character is doing something exciting, like neurotically flipping his fingers on his counter waiting for customers, you're fit for mind-numbing work like putting lids on cans in front of a conveyer belt.

I live in my own apartment. I pay for the rent. I do have friends, but they don't like games too much.

My argument is OVER.
I'm not posting any more "ideas" in this forum. (not starting any topics)

Ezechial_Rage wrote:Jobs weren't done in the mafia because the quests you got stopped at a point. Feel free to call me names, I'm not going to get personal about something on an internet forum. It's fine that you don't like the idea of a job, but I think it has some merit if done properly.

What part of "dire danger to life in the wasteland" do you absolutely fail to comprehend?

It's been done already. They are called "quests", and are balanced enough so that the character can get some influence in a location, some experience and equipment, and move on to the next location so they can get what they are trying to achieve.

If you can't see that, I'd suggest you go out and get some clue about game design, rather than attempt to be a professional apologist for the stupid. Simply for the fact that you can't do that well, either.

You can pinpoint a phrase and say "gotcha" all you want but that doesn't really say anything at all. You're taking what people are saying too literally and trying to shove something back in my face when things don't contradict each other.

Who are you trying to bullshit? I pointed out several good examples of where you were quite wrong in:

"I don't think either Valdis or anyone else who thinks jobs would be a fun idea is talking about sitting behind a counter all day to collect an houry wage."

That is a flat-out shitfaced lie.

More three verbatim posts of being a shopkeeper, starting your own business, working on a farm, and being fired. That's a menial capacity, which anyone (including the poor schmuck at McDonald's) would be aware of. Perhaps someday, you may become aware of the distinctions, too. Then there is another point.

What do you think "full time" means?

Get a dictionary, get a clue about game design, and come back in a couple of years. You seem to have the same grasp of the game as someone who has only played FOT.

Of course there will still be a main storyline to Fallout and your job wouldn't be able to overshadow that. I'm thinking of jobs as little extra stuff you can do for a little while when you're in a particular town or you just have some time to blow. We're talking about a very small gameplay issue here which I don't see why you're getting so worked up about.

They're called "quests", and are already implemented. Sorry, you failed in your obfuscation attempts, again.

(last post to you)
It's always about someone's intelligence, isn't it?

Think about all the jobs you could do in Fallout 2 that had nothing to do with the "MAIN" story.

You could shovel Brahmin shit for a job.

I'm out of here(this forum).
Because I'm getting a headache. And I don't need a headache.

I percieved full time job as something that would go on continually if you wished it to. The job would not be the extent of the game like you've implied. It looks like you feel it's really important to be right so hey, I'll bow down to your seniority and kiss your feet for you. You can't prove an opinion wrong, which is what we're arguing about supposodly.(even though I don't think you understand my concept of what a job in Fallout would be)
I hope you reign supreme on this topic which you worked so hard to deconstruct into a pointless flame war.

Valdis wrote:(last post to you)
It's always about someone's intelligence, isn't it?

That's what it usually comes down to isn't it?

Think about all the jobs you could do in Fallout 2 that had nothing to do with the "MAIN" story.

Uh huh. How does that relate to a *regular* job? How would that fit into Fallout in which your character plays the role of a nomadic hero? Do you want the sims?

You could shovel Brahmin shit for a job.

Did you actually shovel the brahmin shit? no. your screen darkened, came back up, time elapsed and you're back to dialog. Now let's do this over and over again -- what fun.

I'm out of here(this forum).
Because I'm getting a headache. And I don't need a headache.

Translation, I've lost all ability to effectively argue my point. The act of denying that I am wrong despite the obvious flaws in my logic is so mentally tasking that my cranium is in intense pain. I must find another forum where the fish are smaller so that I might reinflate my ego and reaffirm my faith in myself.

Okay, okay. I must have said something wrong.

When I said "jobs" I meant part-time jobs.

Valdis wrote:(last post to you)
It's always about someone's intelligence, isn't it?

Think about all the jobs you could do in Fallout 2 that had nothing to do with the "MAIN" story.

You could shovel Brahmin shit for a job.

Which have already been implemented. So that means this thread is useless, don't you think?

I'm out of here(this forum).
Because I'm getting a headache. And I don't need a headache.

Thinking hurts for the retarded, doesn't it?

Also, don't think I haven't seen some certain flames about me. The point has first been about how stupid this idea has been. By a full-time job, it doesn't fit into the setting. As far as side-jobs, they are already in the game as you've just pointed out, and defeated your own dumbshit topic!

Wow, way to go. So stupid you defeat yourself. Also, you decide to flame Deathy, but have the clueless wonder CBR come into this thread? Aren't you quite the hypocrite.

Valdis wrote:Okay, okay. I must have said something wrong.

When I said "jobs" I meant part-time jobs.

Try another lie.

In the classic Fallout series(Fallout 1 and 2), you really didn't get to have a full time job.

And, you couldn't start your own buisness.

Maybe in Fallout 3 there should be some way to start a buisness or join one for life(or until you quit, retire or are fired).

What do you folks think?

THIS IS WHY I WANT SOMEONE TO LOCK THIS GOD-DAMNED TOPIC!!!

SOMEONE LOCK IT!!!

Good points, good points.

That's why I'm not posting new threads in this topic anymore.

Valdis wrote:When I said "jobs" I meant part-time jobs.

Did ya, now?

Valdis wrote:In the classic Fallout series(Fallout 1 and 2), you really didn't get to have a full time job.

And, you couldn't start your own buisness.

Maybe in Fallout 3 there should be some way to start a buisness or join one for life(or until you quit, retire or are fired).

What do you folks think?