If Fallout were real...

Alphawulf · Post by **Alphawulf** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 7:28 pm

Mr. Green wrote:Personally, I would like to live in a "modern Dark Ages." The collaspe of gobal communications,(Or maybe the destruction of electronics. Like, a massive EMP blast.) cities and towns would form city states and their own provinces and the like. We would still have cars and computers, but what will power them? Most pockets of society would only trade for food and water.

Well I like the world the way it is. Personally I think it's better to go foward than backward. The Dark Ages weren't a good thing, literature glorifies it with knights and battles, but it was basically humanity going backwards from the ancient empires and reverting to a feudal system of ownership. Most people who lived back then would spend their life growing food for their lord and then die at the age of 30 from a fever.

Sol Invictus · Post by **Sol Invictus** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 8:20 pm

Pockets of bigotry, ignorance and widespread idiocy will dominate the will of most of these towns. They'll be killing anyone strange in sight, branding them as 'traitors', 'witches' or something as stupid as 'bringers of the cursed', a.k.a. scientists. These people would despise technology and would be survivalist sorts, blaming technology on the downfall of humanity, wanting to return to its roots, and so on. Scientists and science in general would be persecuted in the same way alchemy was during the middle ages.

Sounds like a good sci-fi/fantasy book, doesn't it? God damn, I certainly ought to write one. Hell, it'd make a damn good game.

airsoft guy · Post by **airsoft guy** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 9:22 pm

Like Spazmo said most people will not revert back to cavemen humping rocks for shits and giggles, we would immediatly go and try and gather together for survival because the vast majority of people do not have all the skills needed by themselves, a few might but even those would probably seek out communities that need their help. Just because you're a survivalist dosn't mean you're also an asshole, even if it is just because you want something.

Megatron · Post by **Megatron** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 9:42 pm

I think most people here would struggle without beer for a week, but since we're all genius super-strong guys who all have guns we should be fine.

Ernesto · Post by **Ernesto** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 10:02 pm

Exitium wrote:Pockets of bigotry, ignorance and widespread idiocy will dominate the will of most of these towns. They'll be killing anyone strange in sight, branding them as 'traitors', 'witches' or something as stupid as 'bringers of the cursed.'

Sounds like a good sci-fi/fantasy book, doesn't it? God damn, I certainly ought to write one.

Sounds like John Wyndam's The Chrysalids. I highly recommend that all Fallout fans read that book.

Megatron · Post by **Megatron** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 10:08 pm

not really? The chrysalids wasn't about shooting strangers, it was about TELEPHATIKS! totally different.

The x-men is more like rex's suggestion :rolla:

Ernesto · Post by **Ernesto** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 10:22 pm

Yes, but they treated the mutations as a deviation from God's will.

Kashluk · Post by **Kashluk** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 10:24 pm

Yup, dark age sucked - that's why they call 'em DARK ages.

I'd rather have a greek/roman kind of a world, where I'd only have to sit on my fat ass and eat grapes while the slaves took care of all physical work...

... and then I'd get my ass kicked by Attila. Oooookayyyy...

I agree with Alphawulf here, the best time to live is right here, right now.

Alphawulf · Post by **Alphawulf** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 10:51 pm

I think we play games partly because we like to imagine being in a certain era or setting, the RPG. In Fallout you live in a post-apocalyptic setting and are mainly trying to survive and become a hero, Baldur's Gate (D&D) is a fantasy realm were we can have all sorts of fun with magic and that stuff. The Sims is a game where we can live in a small house and eat microwaved food... but anyways the best way to try and experience a certain age in time and setting will be in the video games of the present and future. Also movies to a lesser extent.

Ernesto · Post by **Ernesto** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 12:14 am

I would like to spend a weekend in ACO's world, just to see what it was like. Just like 1984's.

Dramuck · Post by **Dramuck** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 1:06 am

Here are some questions I've been pondering.

Even if the majority of the world was destroyed in a holocaust (of any kind), isn't it the story of history to repeat itself? Wouldn't the human race simply bring itself back to this point, which several posters have found to be disgusting and pathetic, and destroy itself again and again, until the sun finally swallowed the earth (which will happen within several million years)? Doesn't that mean that any attempt to change the present to the past would be futile since history would inevitably bring us back to the present (although a different kind of present), destroy it, and move forward again? So why not just keep moving forward instead of chasing after a particular past?

airsoft guy · Post by **airsoft guy** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 1:27 am

Of course when we destroy ourselves we'll build it back up, and one day we probably will nuke each other again.

Oh and we have about 5 billion years before the Sun is scheduled to buy the farm. If all goes to plan it should become a red supergiant, when that happens it will swallow up Mercury and Venus, it wont eat us, but it will be big enough to make the seas boil away and start fires and such, leaving a chared planet, then the Sun will shrink down and die, leaving behind a tiny little chunk of matter about 15 miles wide, when this happens the Solar System will fly off, or gather around the gas giants, like Jupiter.

Fun fact, Jupiter is a failed star, we could have been one of those systems you see in Star Wars with the two stars, but there wasn't enough matter and people got greedy, so here Jupiter sits, what a bitch.

Dramuck · Post by **Dramuck** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 1:48 am

It was 5 billion years? Damn, sorry about that. The main point with that was that it would be a long time in the future.

Megatron · Post by **Megatron** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 2:48 am

Mabye one time humans won't bounce back. Mabye one time people decide to experiment with flying rather that building guns? Mabye, you'll think of meeeeeeeee

InvisibleMonkey · Post by **InvisibleMonkey** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 3:31 am

What makes any of you think that we haven't nuked ourselves before? And I doubt people will think of scientists as witches, and "bringers of the cursed" because even if the world is basically dead it doesn't mean that people will be stupid. The people who survived the apacolypse will most likely try to pass down what the world was like before the "fires engulfed the world." The thing is, is that no one here really knows what they are capable of or what will actually happen if this does happen. The world is so unpredictable that their is no way that we can say what any of us would do in any situation.

Grey Fil · Post by **Grey Fil** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 3:53 am

What some people dont realize is that the Post-Apocaliptic world they want is easily at hand. I suggest a 1 year vacation in:
1-Siberia for the wilderness lovers.
2-Jade smuggling from Burma to Thailand for the hardcore gunmen.
3-Any small Andean village (South America) for the bucolic community minded.

Then come back and tell me how good it is.

InvisibleMonkey · Post by **InvisibleMonkey** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 3:58 am

Or become a hardcore survivalist who lives in the mountains and hunts for food and what not.

OnTheBounce · Post by **OnTheBounce** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 6:55 am

Mr. Green wrote:Neon Dingo, most of Western Society would have a hard time adjusting to such an environ...

Which gets into one of the factors of Natural Selection, namely that when there is a rapid, catastrophic change in environment it's "Good night, Hockypuck!" for a whole slew of species. The only reason this little speck of dust wasn't rendered a lifeless one at one point was because although the dominant forms of life were more-or-less reptilian other forms had already evolved and were waiting in the wings when that comet came...

Mr. Green wrote:Personally, I would like to live in a "modern Dark Ages."...

Well, considering that the term "Dark Ages" is used to refer to an age w/an pandemic lack of literacy...I'd say we're at least verging on one here in the good ol' US of A...

While I have to agree w/ND's complaints about the vast majority of modern life I don't agree w/his solution. One of the problems I have w/life today is that we seem to be expected to sleepwalk off to work 40+ hours/week in what really amount to meaningless, trivial jobs that are soul-destroyingly repetitious and utterly lacking in meaning. I'm sorry, but a week has 168 hours and I can't see spending 56 hours (supposedly) in bed and 40 at work (more, if you count getting ready, transit time, etc.) leaving me w/only 72 hours to do w/as I please. Now, I'm not talking about just loafing around on my ass, watching TV. I'm talking about doing those things that are going to keep my life from having been a total waste. The things that will keep me from shitting my pants on my death bed while I scream for another chance.

I just don't see nuclear holocaust or something similar being the way to avoid all of the drudgery.

OTB

Neon Dingo · Post by **Neon Dingo** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 7:13 am

Every successful species has one or more often several distinguishing characteristics that allow it to survive and thrive in our world. A tiger, for example, has big teeth, claws and can move very quickly, allowing it to survive in it's habitat. Mice are small, quick and able to scavenge and food they might need. We humans have a different strong suit: our intelligence and ingenuity. This has allowed us to develop science and culture (these decadent luxuries you keep jabbering about) to overcome our physical shortcomings. Natural selection has molded us into the humanity you see all around you.

You're right, but natural selection is also going to keep us in check pretty soon (it actually already is). Like I said before, when there's too many deer, they eat up all the plants and they overpopulate and finally die because nothing is killing them off. What I am saying is nature has a way of keeping things in balance, and eventually we will crumble and fall because of our excess, there is no denying that. We have become obese and weak slobs.

Even if a large number of people managed to survive in a bleak post-apocalyptic world (which is admittedly likely due to our species' resilience), they would strive not to be nomadic, half-feral hunter-gatherers, but rather to rebuild everything we had before. There would, of course, be those splinter groups who would either seek to live off of others by theivery or foolishly try to survive alone, but the great bulk would form communities and thence civilizations. That's just how humanity works. We are not crazy loners who survive based on instinct and guts and whatnot. We form communties and build things.

What's so bleak about it? Because you wouldn't have videogames, girlie magazines, and the TV?

Why didn't cavemen jump off of cliffs if it was so "bleak"? Because they didn't have all of these useless modern luxuries all their lives. They didn't grow up with soft warm beds, modern "entertainment," or warm meals made from easily purchased food. They found other ways to make life enjoyable. Do you seriously think that cavemen were continually depressed? I mean crap, are we supposed to be handcuffed to our modern luxuries? No. It's just stuff.

People should be able to adapt a lot easier than that. Those that do not will become dinner for the lions.

I'll admit, I'd have a hard time getting used to not having all of the nice things, but I really think that I don't need it and that spending my entire life just trying to get MORE stuff is a waste of time and is "soul-sucking."

Sure, they'd rebuild, and maybe even get back to the same exact point. Maybe. Or maybe people would stop believing in false ideals and drop the morality and the laws and quit trying to unnecessarily control everybody and everything. Who knows? I know I fucking don't and neither do you. Things tend to happen in extremely random and opposite ways in a chaotic atmosphere.

Or are books another component of our filthy decadent modern society?

Not really. Maybe The Bible or Calculus 101, though.

Even if the majority of the world was destroyed in a holocaust (of any kind), isn't it the story of history to repeat itself? Wouldn't the human race simply bring itself back to this point, which several posters have found to be disgusting and pathetic, and destroy itself again and again, until the sun finally swallowed the earth (which will happen within several million years)? Doesn't that mean that any attempt to change the present to the past would be futile since history would inevitably bring us back to the present (although a different kind of present), destroy it, and move forward again? So why not just keep moving forward instead of chasing after a particular past?

Why don't we just kill ourselves then by that logic if it's all leading up to nothing? Because there is no point to suicide. We should be focusing locally instead of globally. I'm not saying we need to hold ourselves back and use bow and arrows and spears. What I'm saying is we don't need all of these modern conveniences. We don't need to live 80 years. We don't need to be perfectly healthy. There's no reason, really.

Also, the Dark Ages were "dark" because of religious repression and thought control. Lack of knowledge amongst the people. What the fuck makes you think we'd revert back to a feudal system? Why wouldn't people start tiny capitalist or communist cities? I'm pretty sure people would take a long hard look in the mirror and realize that this is the chance to start over and they'd try and do things right this time.

What makes you think there'd even be a system? Maybe people would realize organizing everything is what brought us to the bring of extinction and they'd stop trying to heavily regulate everything. Organizing is written in our genes, yes. But creating laws and regulations, just useless control. "Don't walk around naked, that's bad." "Don't kill anybody, that's bad." "Don't resist authority, that's bad."

Controlling people is unnecessary and "wrong."

Morality is completely relativistic. Everything after the genetic imperative is secondary and should not be the number one priority.

The point is, you don't know and I don't know what will happen. It would just happen. There's no predicting it. Why even bother? Just enjoy it when it happens.

My reasoning:

1. The world is far too advanced than it needs to be if our only purpose is to spread our seeds and survive.
2. Resources are wasted on excess.
3. There are too many people and not enough resources to go around.
4. Culture poisons the mind and causes mass ignorance and conformity.
5. Life is far too complicated than it needs to be and thus it is not as enjoyable because of all of the unnecessary chastity.
6. It's only a matter of time before we destroy ourselves.

It's only a matter of time, folks. Talk all you want about how we're peaceful and civilized, but it's wrong. We are still animals. We are no less organic than an amoeba or a squirrel or a mountain lion. We have deep-seated urges to conquer our environment and destroy our enemies that will never go away. When you have several millions of people versus another several million you will get nothing but mass genocide and death. There's really no peace accord or agreements to get around that. Just look at the Soviet non-aggression pact.

What is really bugging me is you guys think I am looking through some utopian glasses or something when I tell you about this. It couldn't be more far from it. I am readily able to accept the cold hard truths about any life, post-apocalyptic or not. I am a Nihilist. I don't believe in anything, I don't have faith in anything working out the way I think it will. I admit that I am a mere human and I cannot conquer nature entirely. I am just giving probable scenarios. I am not saying "this is how it will be, so STFU." I'm just giving the probable scenarios that would occur from such an event.

Neon Dingo · Post by **Neon Dingo** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 7:37 am

I agree with you, once again, OTB. It may sound like sucking up or whatever, but you have a pretty good grasp on things and you'd get my vote.

I think we should shorten work to 4 hours a day. I feel so terrible spending 8 hours of my day baking fucking bread at an Italian resturant getting paid mere peanuts for my dehumanization. It makes me feel worthless. I shouldn't be doing that shit. I should be drawing or lifting weights and better spending my time instead of standing in place for 8 hours a day doing something that you could train a damn monkey to do.

The holocaust scenario sucks. I am quite cynical about things, namely modern society, and I honestly see ourselves crashing and burning within the next hundred or so years. I would much like to live in a world with a lot less regulation and much more freedom to choose to do what you'd like. The thing is though, I really don't see that happening unless there's a massive population cleansing to get rid of all of the people that are so helplessly dependant on the system that they'd protect it with their very lives.