So in the news today (Assault Weapons Ban)

[airsoft guy]

I don't believe in bow hunting, it's cool if someone elkse wants to do it but I wont because when I shoot an animal I want to to die as soon as possible. You shoot a deer with a bow and it can still run off and run far, you're supposed to wait at least an hour before tracking the animal unless you must. An injured deer can run off someplace where you can't find it where it will slowly die.

Furthermore, sure, you can kill just about any critter with a .22LR, but it's nowhere near ideal for most game, in fact it's illegal to hunt any big game animal with anything less than a .25 and it has to have a certain velocity and weight to it to ensure that the round has a chance of killing the animal.

Okay, you don't NEED a gun for home defense, but it's still the ideal tool for it compared to you simply kicking the shit out of someone. You don't NEED a scredriver to tighten a screw, but the screwdriver is what you would want to use. Maybe YOU can kick someone's ass, but what about someone who can't? Not everyone is a bouncer like you were. For those people a firearm is a much better tool to defend themselves with than attempting to break someone's face. Most of the time you don't even have to shoot, simply rack the slide or work the pump, make that CHACK-KING noise and tell the interloper to make friends with the floor whilst you call the police. I'm like you, I'm a big imposing guy, as is my dad and I'm pretty confident that if someone decided to break in here I could ruin their shit by getting physical on their ass, but if that for some reason fails or isn't option there's a .44 in the closet ready to roll. Situations where I would fall back to the gun would be if the intruder himself has a gun or possibly a knife.

Plus as I've said and many others, including Kash which is very odd, the assault weapon ban did not ban fully-automatic weapons, it banned weapons that LOOK full auto basically. It was just a law that was put into place for future gun bans.

[airsoft guy]

I don't believe in bow hunting, it's cool if someone elkse wants to do it but I wont because when I shoot an animal I want to to die as soon as possible. You shoot a deer with a bow and it can still run off and run far, you're supposed to wait at least an hour before tracking the animal unless you must. An injured deer can run off someplace where you can't find it where it will slowly die.

Furthermore, sure, you can kill just about any critter with a .22LR, but it's nowhere near ideal for most game, in fact it's illegal to hunt any big game animal with anything less than a .25 and it has to have a certain velocity and weight to it to ensure that the round has a chance of killing the animal.

Okay, you don't NEED a gun for home defense, but it's still the ideal tool for it compared to you simply kicking the shit out of someone. You don't NEED a scredriver to tighten a screw, but the screwdriver is what you would want to use. Maybe YOU can kick someone's ass, but what about someone who can't? Not everyone is a bouncer like you were. For those people a firearm is a much better tool to defend themselves with than attempting to break someone's face. Most of the time you don't even have to shoot, simply rack the slide or work the pump, make that CHACK-KING noise and tell the interloper to make friends with the floor whilst you call the police. I'm like you, I'm a big imposing guy, as is my dad and I'm pretty confident that if someone decided to break in here I could ruin their shit by getting physical on their ass, but if that for some reason fails or isn't option there's a .44 in the closet ready to roll. Situations where I would fall back to the gun would be if the intruder himself has a gun or possibly a knife.

Plus as I've said and many others, including Kash which is very odd, the assault weapon ban did not ban fully-automatic weapons, it banned weapons that LOOK full auto basically. It was just a law that was put into place for future gun bans.

[NOT A PEDOPHILE]

Hahahaha, before you cite faulty Freudian psychology, read up on Freud, smartass.

someone obviously get offended by the penis part.
don't worry lad, you'll find someone who dont care about your shortcomings.

Swing and a miss, shithead. Freud himself said that people who had a phobia of weapons suffered from severe sexual hysteria. You see me with my big ol' "penis", and you want to "emasculate" me because you're jealous.

blahblahblah blahblah

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at, was your intention however to spare me the work of showing that you are, in fact, retarded, then I suppose that you have succeeded.
good job moron.

Or maybe I was just pointing out that what you were rambling about had absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

[NOT A PEDOPHILE]

edit: double post because the server sux

[Doc Hill]

N.A.P. Fuck off an die a horrible, horrible, death. Thank you, and now back to your regularly scheduled thread.

[Mismatch]

Swing and a miss, shithead. Freud himself said that people who had a phobia of weapons suffered from severe sexual hysteria. You see me with my big ol' "penis", and you want to "emasculate" me because you're jealous.

poiting out the fact that automatic weapons should be illegal, is not quite the same as a phobia lad.
and, I dare not question freud, since phycology is too much of an accurate science.
and, however much you quote freud, you won't ever convice me that fellas walking around packing guns for no reason is a whole different thing than a 12years old kid bringing a knife to school to look cool.

Or maybe I was just pointing out that what you were rambling about had absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

oh.
didn't follow them topics, did I now?
go ahead and cry you pansy looser

[NOT A PEDOPHILE]

poiting out the fact that automatic weapons should be illegal, is not quite the same as a phobia lad.

When you have no valid reasons for why you think they should be banned, other than that they're big and scary, one can only assume that you have a phobia. Why else get so worked up over the issue?

and, I dare not question freud, since phycology is too much of an accurate science.

You were the one who was originally citing him with that idiotic comment about compensation.

and, however much you quote freud, you won't ever convice me that fellas walking around packing guns for no reason is a whole different thing than a 12years old kid bringing a knife to school to look cool.

Where did I mention 12-year-olds bringing knives to school?

oh.
didn't follow them topics, did I now?
go ahead and cry you pansy looser

what? You are a retard. If you're not going to discuss the topic that the thread is about, maybe you should start your own thread.

N.A.P. Fuck off an die a horrible, horrible, death.

You take the internet far too seriously. Log off the computer, take a brisk walk, go to a therapist, anything. Internet Tough Guyism is no way to live.

[Mismatch]

you just go on and on, dontcha?

When you have no valid reasons for why you think they should be banned, other than that they're big and scary, one can only assume that you have a phobia. Why else get so worked up over the issue?

isn't it obvious why they should be banned? and I am not quite sure that I can agree with the worked up part.

You were the one who was originally citing him with that idiotic comment about compensation.

can the word penis complex really be called citing freud? I doubt it.

Where did I mention 12-year-olds bringing knives to school?

you dimwit.

[Wolfman Walt]

isn't it obvious why they should be banned?

No its not, please explain.

[NOT A PEDOPHILE]

can the word penis complex really be called citing freud? I doubt it.

Considering that Freud came up with it, yes.

[Mismatch]

isn't it obvious why they should be banned?

No its not, please explain.

you just won't let me go to bed do you?
they should be banned since there is abolutely no use for automatics in a civilians hands.
if you say big game hunting, then get yourself a bloody elephant rifle.
and, whats the point of hunting when you use a full automatic anyway?

and the self defense part is pure and utter bullshit.

massive firepower in the hands of almost anyone just is a rather bad idea. a bloody bad idea even.

I'm rather amazed that I even have to write this.
never post again, I'm off to bed you evil republicans.

[airsoft guy]

Why is it a bad idea though? You haven't said why it is a bad idea besides that it's just a bad idea.

[Wolfman Walt]

I swear we were over this not too long ago. Automatics aren't in the hands of the common citizen, it's very expensive and hard to get an automatic firearm. Absolutely no use for automatic weapons in civilian hands? Perhaps you should look at why the 2nd amendment was instated. It's to prevent a tyrannical government from being put into place as well as to help in the aide of civil defense against foreign powers. I'm pretty sure if some country attacks everyones gonna be pretty glad that theres something like a 1 to 1 ratio of firearms here.

I don't think anyone ever mentioned about using a fully automatic for hunting besides Murphy, who was joking anyways.

and the self defense part is pure and utter bullshit.

Really, why? When you make statements, please do us the favor of backing them up. For that matter, you have yet to really back up ANYTHING you've said thus far. The only thing you've done is make unbacked up statements and generalizations. So yea, I'm amazed you did have to write that because I figured you'd know how to instate a proper argument without relying on such techniques.

Being a republican doesn't make me evil, it just makes you ignorant. And night night.

[Mandalorian FaLLouT GoD]

Holy shit. You just used the goddamn "tyrannical government" card.

If the fucking government went "tyrannical" you couldn't do shit anyways because they could bomb the ever-loving shit out of any resistance and an obedient army could totally rape a shitstick-ragtag group that a bunch of civilians would comprise.

And everyone knows that a governmental system doesn't oppress its people without military backing.

[jetbaby]

I am so glad that ban was lifted. Now I can go out and get me an AR-15! I am so glad I don't have a criminal record =p. Now me Joe citizen can defend my house with full-auto deathness. Joy!

Is this a stupid joke or just stupid?

[Wolfman Walt]

Holy shit. You just used the goddamn "tyrannical government" card.

Because it works, its not a card. Thats the reason. If you don't like it, too fucking bad, you've done nothing to disprove it. End of story.

If the fucking government went "tyrannical" you couldn't do shit anyways because they could bomb the ever-loving shit out of any resistance and an obedient army could totally rape a shitstick-ragtag group that a bunch of civilians would comprise.

Gee, you say that, but history kinda dictates you otherwise. The Afghani's repeled the Russian Army with what ammounts to the same supplies as US civilians have. Hell, right now (reportidly) we're having abunch of trouble with what essentually is some guys in Turbans running around in the desert with machine guns and and afew rocket launchers. SURELY if we could just bomb the shit out of them, this wouldn't be possible.

If anything less, because there are many more people who own firearms in the US then there are in Afghanistan and Iraq, most likely combined. Plus theres the fact that since militia aren't always neccesarily in uniform, and governments don't just RANDOMLY BOMB their own citicizens, you're little theory kinda gets blasted to shit.

And everyone knows that a governmental system doesn't oppress its people without military backing.

And everyone also knows that the military doesn't always support the government. The military in some respects is something of a seperate entity intertwined with the government. Yes, if there was a tyrannical government, some would obide, but I imagine some would not. So there, shut up. Its possible.

[xbow]

Yeah, I'm sure your uncle has a great big sexy cock that you just can't get enough of, but gun rights have nothing to do with hunting. It's about being able to overthrow a despotic government (and thus is integral to the sustenance of democracy), not to mention that it makes defense against a foreign invader a whole lot easier. Plus there's the basic human right of being able to defend oneself.

That's too fucking funny and absolutely dead on target. I wouldn't expect Mandalorian to understand the issue he is after all a product of his culture and traditions as are we all.

Thomas Jefferson and his cohorts included the second amendment to, as you stated provide the citizenry the power to defend the nation and overthrow the government if it becomes malignant or despotic. The other reason you cited was the right of self defense.

The second amendment is however not the vehicle that assures a US citizen the right to own an effective weapon (today that means a gun) for self defense. The right to possess weaponry comes from a more fundamental set of laws that you touched on 'Rights Under Basic Law'. Even if (god forbid) the second amendment disappeared the citizenry would still have the right to possess weapons for self defense.

Just about all nations say that they support the citizens ‘Basic Right to life’ but in many of these nations the citizens are denied the tools to protect themselves. This denial of the Basic Right of self defense is nothing less than a relic of the feudal system.

It figures that citizens of SOME European nations have no concept of Basic Laws and Rights because for better than a thousand years the majority of its peoples were crushed under the feudal system or in more recent times an equally self serving and oppressive aristocracy.

The hierarchal structure of Europe’s feudal system:

Lord
The jack ass that has the power to control others by force. He has the absolute right to possess any weapon he desires and he is governed only by greater Lords.

Vassal
A lackey that in return for a land grant from the Lord has sworn an oath of allegiance to the Lord and takes on the duty of controlling the under classes with a number of men at arms. These characters administer justice, collect taxes and provide the Lord with a set number of troops in time of war. The Vassal and his men at arms are the lowest level of the citizenry that is granted the right to bear arms.

Peasant
The largest element of society has some property ownership rights but unless a person from the peasant class is inducted into the service of the Vassals band of armed thugs he has no right of weapon ownership and thus no right to protect himself.

Serf
A serf was much like a slave but they were bonded to the land they worked and the noble that owned the land. They had no property ownership rights and certainly no right to possess the means to defend his/her life.

Slave
Human property he /she has no rights at all . They live or die at the whim of the Lords and Vassals that own them.

I would seem that for over a millennia much of Europe was ruthlessly exploited by an armed aristocracy that administered its edicts from the tip of a sword or from the barrel of a gun. By denying its people the Natural Right and means of self defense it made squeezing blood out of the peasants, surfs, and slaves much less problematic for those in power.

The long standing and brutal excesses of the European aristocracy is precisely the reason our founding fathers took steps to eliminate the possibility of the citizenry becoming the chattels of the rich.



Just for the record: For the most part the Scandinavian countries and Finland never seemed to fall in lock step with their southern neighbors and have generally not deprived their citizens of the right to defend themselves.

[Retlaw83]

Holy shit. You just used the goddamn "tyrannical government" card.

If the fucking government went "tyrannical" you couldn't do shit anyways because they could bomb the ever-loving shit out of any resistance and an obedient army could totally rape a shitstick-ragtag group that a bunch of civilians would comprise.

And everyone knows that a governmental system doesn't oppress its people without military backing.

First off, large military forces don't deal with guerilla warfare very well - which is what a citizens resistance would be. Second off, resistance in these cases, while usually not very effective, is highly symbolic and driven by people who believe firmly in their cause.

[Retlaw83]

Holy shit. You just used the goddamn "tyrannical government" card.

If the fucking government went "tyrannical" you couldn't do shit anyways because they could bomb the ever-loving shit out of any resistance and an obedient army could totally rape a shitstick-ragtag group that a bunch of civilians would comprise.

And everyone knows that a governmental system doesn't oppress its people without military backing.

First off, large military forces don't deal with guerilla warfare very well - which is what a citizens resistance would be. Second off, resistance in these cases, while usually not very effective, is highly symbolic and driven by people who believe firmly in their cause.

[Mandalorian FaLLouT GoD]

Shit Walt I know its possible. But so is the fact that you could walk outside and get hit by a stray bullet, fired from an assault rifle by someone who was hunting with it.

I know you and Airsoft guy make very valid points but being from a country where the guns aren't even registered and we have shitloads less violence, I just don't see how people justify anything more than handguns.
But I guess you gotta be American to see it.