Duck and Cover

Mr. Teatime wrote:'because america is a christian country'?

You act like this surprises you? Ask any conservative in America and that is what they'll tell you. They ALL conveniently ignore the fact that America was intended to separate church and state.

Just because our founding fathers were Christian, doesn't mean they intended to press their religious beliefs upon the entire country.

Or did they? Salem witch trials?

that was kinda BEFORE 1776 mang...

Comment retracted. I don't know my history.

Franz Schubert wrote:

Mr. Teatime wrote:'because america is a christian country'?

You act like this surprises you? Ask any conservative in America and that is what they'll tell you. They ALL conveniently ignore the fact that America was intended to separate church and state.

Just because our founding fathers were Christian, doesn't mean they intended to press their religious beliefs upon the entire country.

Franz, this is the kind of blanket generalization I think you would avoid. I'm a conservative, and yet I seem to be more tolerant of religious differences than most liberals I know. Despite what you might like to think, not all conservatives are Christian fundamentalist wackos who wish to impose their views on everybody.

Increasingly, the U.S. is becoming a country of no religion, at least at the popular culture and governmental levels. And that's the way it should be.

Right. Thank Dubya and his big bowl of hard-right money.

Retlaw wrote:not all conservatives are Christian fundamentalist wackos who wish to impose their views on everybody.

Just the ones you elect into office, huh? The fact that you're voting for Bush sort of negates this statement.

Franz Schubert wrote:

Retlaw wrote:not all conservatives are Christian fundamentalist wackos who wish to impose their views on everybody.

Just the ones you elect into office, huh? The fact that you're voting for Bush sort of negates this statement.

Explain how me voting for Bush makes every conservative a fundametalist Christian wacko.

And for the record, Kerry and Bush are both idiots. The only difference is that Bush has opinions and Kerry doesn't seem to.

Bush is highly fundamentalist, as he plans to abolish any chances of future gay marriage and kill off any chances of abortions as well. Socially, Bush is a complete fundamentalist wacko. Since he's fucked up the economy as well, his only saving grace might be on his plan for the war. Kerry actually has a pretty strong opinion the war when you look at it. Despite the go-ahead, there's no denying that he opposed it to begin with. As for his plans to continue the war (and he will, he doensn't have a choice), now the US has more of an obligation to stay in Iraq as things have gone to the shitter. There's no denying that totally pulling out without fixing things would be bad for both the Americans and the Iraqis. Overall, Kerry's stance sounds more like a reflection of the moral and political ambiguity of the war than simple flipflopping. Granted, there isn't that much of a difference between K and B, but I don't get how you can call Kerry completely opinionless.

republicans don't know what an opinion is

Put simply in Australian political terminology: Kerry is the Latham to Bush's Howard. The lesser of two (considerable) evils. Sad, but true. Clichéd, but true.

@ Atoga

In all fairness, Bush hasn't made any moves to block abortions.

And no one yet has explained how ALL conservatives are fundamentalist Christian wackos.

retlaw wrote:And for the record, Kerry and Bush are both idiots.

Nice try... Kerry is an intelligent individual, especially when compared to Bush, who is a complete moron and a liar. I'd rather have a "flip-flopper" than a malicious lying idiot as my leader. And the fact that Bush can get away with ANYTHING and the conservatives will still vote for him is a sign that they are all wackos, even if some of them aren't Christian fundamentalists.

Franz Schubert wrote: Nice try... Kerry is an intelligent individual, especially when compared to Bush, who is a complete moron and a liar. I'd rather have a "flip-flopper" than a malicious lying idiot as my leader. And the fact that Bush can get away with ANYTHING and the conservatives will still vote for him is a sign that they are all wackos, even if some of them aren't Christian fundamentalists.

Except they're both fucking retarded.

Kerry can't hold an opinion for more than few hours - which was proven one day in Ohio when he gave a pro-life speech to a bunch of pro-lifers on one side of the state and a pro-choice speech to a bunch of pro-choicers on the other side of the state.

Bush, however, has the opposite problem. He will take a stance on a subject - WMDs in Iraq, for example - and not back down from that stance regardless of whether it holds up to reality.

So, quite frankly, they're awful candidates, both lacking humility or sense. In both cases mentioned above they demonstrate that they think they can say anything and the American people will follow blindly and not question them. To be blindly devoted to either is idiotic in the extreme; both have more bad points than good, and mentioning those few good points won't make me fall in love with either of them.

I'm voting Republican simply because the world is full of very bad people who would like to see the country destroyed, and judging by Clinton's track record the Democrats do nothing when we are in peril. Although the Republicans might have gone overboard with the invasion of Iraq, that's a damn sight better than blowing up civilian aspirin factories and letting guerilla fighters drive us out of Somolia over a dozen or so combat deaths.

It's not like USA are fucking in peril you goddamn paranoiac.

Actually we are. Kerry understands that the most important thing we need to do is account for EACH missing USSR nuke... meanwhile Bush is too busy invading foreign countries and fucking our economy to do anything about it.

OMG 9/11 TEH TRAGEDY, SO SAD!! Do you even realize how many people would DIE if someone set off a nuke in downtown New York? We are not safe with Bush in office. He is too inept to protect us.

Blargh wrote:Put simply in Australian political terminology: Kerry is the Latham to Bush's Howard. The lesser of two (considerable) evils. Sad, but true. Clichéd, but true. icon_drunk

Nobody gets your wacko backwater Australian politics, just like nobody gets Canadian politics.

Retlaw wrote:And no one yet has explained how ALL conservatives are fundamentalist Christian wackos.

They're not, as there are plenty of moderates (Arnie, Rudy, etc.). Bush, however, is high on the fundamentalist scale. By supporting Bush, though, aren't you buying into the whole idea and letting the Christian right gain a lot of influence? I'd worry more about America's social policies at home, since America's military bent is already self-obsessed. I'm more concerned about the social direction that America is going in, as the right is beginning to dictate everything and wrecking the economy in the process. Seriously, what America needs is another few more 9/11s, because what they say about it being a 'wake-up call' is basically true. By and large, America will be safer by reforming its social policies, not its military ones.

On FlipFlop: yeah, he was guilty of going both ways on the abortion debate, but Kerry's social policies are typically liberal: he's going to remain a pro-lifer, and he's not going to change the definition of marriage. By and large, Kerry is desperate for votes.

atoga wrote:Nobody gets your wacko backwater Australian politics, just like nobody gets Canadian politics.

Really ? Both issues must be far too cerebral for 'them', then. Nonetheless, I know they aren't missing out on much bar frustration and misery on the former, and I doubt the latter is much different somehow.

Blargh wrote:Really ? Both issues must be far too cerebral for 'them', then.

No, actually that's not it. The names of the political figures you mention don't mean anything to us, without some sort of context. And frankly, none of us care enough to google it and find out.

Ignorance and apathy, a formidable combination . . .